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Thread: No name factory mandolin

  1. #1

    Default No name factory mandolin

    Ran across a mandolin with no markings inside or out. However, if you hold the peghead in the light you can make out a slightly raised "Kentucky" and the art deco inlay of an older model KM-650 under the black finish. It's all hard to photograph but pretty easy to see in person once you look. It definitely looks factory made. Is it a likely factory second? What happens to Asian "reject" mandolins? Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    What happens depends on the company. Some sell them with a stamped 2 on the back of the headstock, some sell them at a discount through their dealer network, some cut them up and perhaps some remove the logo. It could have also been removed by someone that didn't want the Kentucky logo up there. It might not have been the importer that removed it. Saga music has a few eBay usernames that sell their seconds. I don't remember seeing any with the logo removed.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    May be, as Mike says, someone removed the Kentucky name with the intention of adding something with more kudos. There used to be many big-name transfers (decals in "American"!) available on eBay to add to your nondescript instrument; maybe they still are?

  4. #4

    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    it doesn't look like a home refinish job. There's smudges on the peg head in the picture, but the finish on the peghead looks as factory as the rest of the mandolin.

  5. #5
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    They didn't have to refinish anything, they just used a mild rubbing compound like tooth paste to remove the logo. I have a Strad-O-Lin that was built in the 30's that someone did that to and I'll admit I did it with a Japanese banjo years ago. It's not that hard to do.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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  7. #6

    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    So it wasn't an inlay at all? I assumed it was inlay, that has raised just slightly and is now visible (if you look hard enough).

  8. #7
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    My Strad and the banjo were the same way. It's just not visible from 10 feet away. That isn't to say that you might not find inlay under paint. I don't know what that instrument has been through but I seriously doubt Saga would paint over a headstock. All of their production facilities were in the far east.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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  9. #8
    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
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    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    Unless you wiped the headstock in the first photo, someone has taken a solvent and removed the decal. You can see the swirls in the light reflection. Either they didn't want the Kentucky name on it or they were going to put a different decal on.

    Does it have a label inside?
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  10. #9

    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    Those are smudges, adhesive residue from a flower pot inlay sticker a previous owner had put on it. I took it off. It was really high up on the peg head and looked out of place. Otherwise I probably would have left it. When I was taking it off was when I noticed the inlay under the black. There's no label nor any markings anywhere that I can see. I've googled and found this picture. This is what I can make out under the black. You can see it pretty well in person in the glare of light. It's hard to get a picture of. Also the truss rod cover is the same. I found a few old web ads for a couple of these as KM-650s from around 2012. Click image for larger version. 

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    Registered User almeriastrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by fits View Post
    So it wasn't an inlay at all? I assumed it was inlay, that has raised just slightly and is now visible (if you look hard enough).
    On the majority of these they are a very, very thin 'slice' of material applied as an 'overlay' on top of the base coat of the finish, then sandwiched' between the base and top coats. 90% of low-medium priced instruments are done line this..... very easy to remove. You just sand though it and buff it up. These 'slices' are incredibly thin.... some people would buy a Kentucky or Goldstar (banjo) remove the original name, then stick a fake 'Gibson' one on, or just leave it blank... used to be a very common practice. Less so now.
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  14. #11

    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    Thanks to everyone for their responses and insight.

  15. #12
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    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    There is a company called MIRC [Musical Instrument Reclamation Corp] that specializes in selling factory seconds, instruments that fail to meet factory specifications, or unsold instruments that have been damaged and repaired.

    Their instruments have been given a new serial number and a "used" stamp. The instruments are not covered by any factory warranties.

    Unscrupulous retailers have been known to remove the used stamp or otherwise try to camouflage these instruments and sell them as new. One of my students purchased a supposedly new Breedlove mandolin that had been camouflaged. The intonation was no good on the mandolin due to inaccurate fret placement, which was why it had been rejected by Breedlove. Breedlove sold it to MIRC, who sold it to a hole-in-the-wall dealer, who represented the instrument as new standard factory issue and sold it to my student. This hole-in-the-wall dealer is still in business . . .

    Your mandolin could be a MIRC instrument that was camouflaged, or a stolen instrument that had the label removed and the logo hidden, or a factory second that did not go through MIRC, or one that someone intended to relabel as an American made mandolin, or . . . .

    It appears from the photo that someone sprayed over the logo with black spray can lacquer-- the "orange peel" effect is easy to see if you know what to look for.

    There is no reason to hide logos, remove or change serial numbers or labels, etc. unless some kind of monkey business is going on.

    Unless you're Bill Monroe and you're mad at Gibson for refinishing your F-5 when they were only supposed to replace the worn frets, so you get your pocket knife out and dig out the logo and scrape the new finish off your mandolin.

    By the way, ebay is prime selling ground for instruments with a bit of monkey business . . .

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  17. #13
    Registered User almeriastrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by rcc56 View Post

    There is no reason to hide logos, remove or change serial numbers or labels, etc. unless some kind of monkey business is going on.
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  19. #14
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    The fact that it's 'raised' means that there's still something there under the finish,presumably the original inlay / decal ?. Why the factory would overspray it,doesn't make any sense to me,even if it was a 'second'. I suspect that at some point,it was going to have 'another name' added to it,but it never got done. Kentucky mandolins are usually good enough to carry their own name without needing to 'pose' as other makes - so why ????.

    Would it be possible to obtain new Kentucky decals for it ?. It might be worth looking into,
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  20. #15
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    Actually that's not necessarily true Ivan. I have a Strad-O-lin that has the raised logo that can be seen if the light is right and I again had a Japanese banjo that I took the label off that was the same way. There's nothing under that raised portion. It's just the paint's reaction to the logo when it was put on.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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  22. #16

    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    .... There's nothing under that raised portion. It's just the paint's reaction to the logo when it was put on.
    Ah, see I thought of block sanding the peg head to uncover what I assumed was an inlay underneath and just polish it out. I think I better leave it alone.

  23. #17

    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    Here it was as I got it, with the flower pot sticker high on the peghead. It's a pretty decent looking mandolin. Also, another odd thing, the guy I got it from said when he got it the tuners were messed up. They weren't reverse geared, but the tuner button shafts were flipped flopped from how they should be, the long shafts were closer to the nut and the shorter shafts near the scrolls. He took the tuners apart and moved the shafts to their correct location. Attachment 163895Attachment 163896

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    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall View Post
    Why the factory would overspray it,doesn't make any sense to me,even if it was a 'second'. I suspect that at some point,it was going to have 'another name' added to it,but it never got done. Kentucky mandolins are usually good enough to carry their own name without needing to 'pose' as other makes - so why ????.

    Ivan
    The overspray was most likely done after it left the factory, either by someone who intended to put a different name on the mandolin, or someone who was trying to cover its identity because it might have been stolen. If there is no serial number on the instrument, someone has been up to no good.

    There are many mandolins that are worth far more than a Kentucky.

  25. #19
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    Ah, "The Mystery Of the Anonymous Mandolin," a drama that gets played out frequently here on the Cafe.

    There are several reasons an owner might camouflage the mandolin's brand, not all of them nefarious. Not sure from the first post, as to whether OP's actually purchased the instrument. I'd be cautious before buying a mandolin whose ID has been obscured...
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  26. #20
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    On my Strad-O-Lin the logo was rubbed out, the decoration in the center of the headstock was left in place. Whomever did that most likely put the big J in a circle sticker as the new logo. As literally thousands and maybe more instruments were built in the US in the early 1900's and beyond with no label, no marking or any kind "for the trade" to be labeled by a retailer, distributor, school, teacher etc. as their own brand I can't really fault the practice. It only becomes a problem for me when someone is selling a lesser brand instrument labeled as a more expensive brand instrument. You want no logo or your name to make yourself feel better, have at it.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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  27. #21

    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    I’m no expert or anything but it sure does not look at all like someone sitting in their basement decided to shoot some black paint and clear coat on the peg head. Obviously that has happened but it doesn’t look like a home job.



    Quote Originally Posted by allenhopkins View Post
    Ah, "The Mystery Of the Anonymous Mandolin," a drama that gets played out frequently here on the Cafe.

    There are several reasons an owner might camouflage the mandolin's brand, not all of them nefarious. Not sure from the first post, as to whether OP's actually purchased the instrument. I'd be cautious before buying a mandolin whose ID has been obscured...

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  29. #22
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    Somehow,i don't think that anything has been taken off the OPs mandolin headstock,it's been painted over with 'some intent' in mind. As the finish looks to be pretty good,i'd definitely look into the possibility of getting a 'Kentucky' decal for it. Some ''decorative'' Decals / Transfers / Inlay stickers - if you want to call them that,are easily available from Jocomo :- Headstock stickers https://www.inlaystickers.com/collections/for-headstock

    If the mandolin is up for purchase,as long as it sounded & played well,'no name' wouldn't bother me one bit ! I'd even go so far as to get a good luthier to actually inlay the name on it,
    Ivan
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  30. #23
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    Painting and scraping the binding on that mandolin headstock would be a whole lot harder than just taking some toothpaste and a damp rag to it followed by wax. Just sayin'.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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  32. #24

    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    Painting and scraping the binding on that mandolin headstock would be a whole lot harder than just taking some toothpaste and a damp rag to it followed by wax. Just sayin'.
    Agree with Mike. I've come close to accidentally removing stenciled type logos due to just polishing too hard with automotive polish.

  33. #25

    Default Re: No name factory mandolin

    OP:

    Show us the whole mandolin.
    Aside from the finish on the peghead, how does it sound?

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