So I want to build an A-style mandolin

[Wrnchbndr]

I'm wanting to build a replica of a pre 1930s Gibson A-style mandolin. We have one at the shop. I believe its an A0 or an A1 and it has a failed top with multiple cracks in its very thin top. Everyone of these early mandolins that I have played have sung so sweetly. Does anyone recommend a supplier for good full size printed plans and a decent book that describes the build process to recreate one of these. I figure get my hands on plans and do a lot of reading first before I invest in tools jigs and materials. I have not built many acoustic instruments -- I don't really have the work space but I'd really like to try my hand at something like this. Its important to me to be as close to the Gibson as I can be. Plans and reading material is what I'm looking for. Suggestions please.

[Wrnchbndr]

Anyone use the plans available from Elderly Instruments?

[Charles E.]

James Condino drew up a set of plans for a 1923 era Gibson Snakehead for GAL a little while back.
Here is his website....... http://condino.com/

He may sell them directly.

Here are the plans from GAL........

http://www.luth.org/plans/instrument....html#mandolin

[MikeEdgerton]

Most of the plans you're going to find are from the 20's era. The 30's era instruments aren't awful but they aren't the holy grail.

I don't see any A plans on Elderly's site. The F plans I see were drawn by a Cafe member.

[Charles E.]

The only reading material I know of concerning A style mandolins is Graham McDonald's book "The Mandolin Project"......

http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/mandolinproject.html

[Graham McDonald]

The carved mandolin in The Mandolin Project is a modern interpretation of a Lyon & Healy mandolin rather than a Gibson in construction methodology. That is not to say you should not buy a copy Roger Siminoff's book on F-5 construction will give a better idea of how Gibson did it, but the soundboard graduations on a Gibson oval sound hole mandolin are quite different from the F style in his book.
Cheers

[gregoriousd]

What kind of shop are you in? This may not be the answer you are looking for but IV sells an A style kit with an un-cut top for $130; you could cut your own oval hole, something that is rarely an option in kit form. If you don't have much experience with building acoustic instruments, a kit might be a good starting point. Most of the heavy lifting is done, but there is plenty of wood left on the soundboard and back for you to try out a graduation plan. Minus the time, $130 could be the equivalent of downgrading from high end woods on a full scratch first time build. Check out Old Standard Wood and you'll see what I mean. And in the end, you get two mandolins

[rcc56]

If you can't find the plan you want, you can always work it out the old way . . . .

1. Trace a body shape from an existing mandolin.
2. Decide on your soundhole shape and location. Mark now, cut later.
3. Start carving away everything that doesn't look like a mandolin. Whatever you do to the left side, do the same thing to the right. Be sure to leave everything over an 1/8" thick, leave more under the fingerboard.
4. Start tapping and flexing, and decide where you want to take a little more off.
5. Cut your soundhole[s], then glue in and tune your brace[s].
6. Make your neck and assemble. CNC precut fingerboards can be a wonderful thing.
7. Finish and set up.

No, I'm not trying to be a smart aleck-- sometimes we get too tied up in the science and forget to look at building as an art.

[rockies]

As you have a Gibson already in your shop, have you considered a project or re-topping the one you have. A much easier project to start with then a complete build. And you will learn so much! I had to re-top a mandolin I broke the top on a few years age. With the advice from those here on the Café I made a new top and then removed the existing top and replaced it. The project turned out great. Just a thought.
Dave

[sunburst]

...sometimes we get too tied up in the science and forget to look at building as an art.

Science and art are obviously not mutually exclusive when building mandolins. I feel like I use a little bit of both... but only a little bit of both. Mostly what I use is craftsmanship...
...and that's where copying a good historical design comes in. If we use good observation, good measurement, good research and good craftsmanship, we really can't go wrong. Like others who have posted here, I don't know of an available set of good plans or drawings for a Gibson-style oval hole A, but that doesn't man you can't find enough info to make one.

[j. condino]

Post number three from Charles is a very accurate set of plans from the Guild of American Luthiers for a blueprint of a mid 1920s snakehead A style Gibson. I do not sell them direct; the GAL does. I just checked their website and there is some jibberish that is being corrected in the description- it is not a composite of an F3 and F5. That was a description error by the web guy. The snakehead A plan just got back from the printers and should be available now. It was also featured in American Lutherie magazine a few issues back.

j.

[rcc56]

" . . . a decent book that describes the build process . . . "

Siminoff's book is certainly worth reading. It is written with an F-5 as the subject, but the process is pretty much the same for an A model, the biggest differences being in ornamention and style.

Carved top mandolin construction takes its inspiration and the bulk of its techniques from violin construction. Ed. Heron-Allen's "Violin Making as it Was and Is" and H.S. Wake's "The Technique of Violin Making" are two good texts in English. There are many others published more recently that are available. I would consider one or two of these books to be required reading. Add to that a chapter or article on executing a dovetail neck joint-- this can be taken from steel string guitar construction.

If you've got a Gibson there, take the footprint, measure the scale and the location of the 12th fret in relationship to the body. Also observe the angle of the neck set. Using that as a guide, you can't go too wrong. As far as thicknesses, Gibsons varied considerably in detail but not very much in general style. Some are built heavier and some lighter, but they all average out somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/8" in the active portions of the soundboard. I haven't measured the thickness of a Gibson back and I don't have a tool to give me that measurement, but someone should be able to give you a ballpark figure on that. Final graduation and thicknessing is ideally done by tap tone and flexibility, the final numbers depending on the characteristics of the individual piece of wood. The biggest mistake you can make is to work a plate too thin early in the construction process. You can always thin it later. If you still have the old Gibson top, keep it. You can learn a lot from it, both what was right and what was wrong about it.

In my experience, mid 'teens Gibsons generally seem to be built a bit lighter than '20's models and have a different response. Personally, I usually prefer the tone and response of the earlier instruments. But if you want your mandolin to take a fairly heavy string, take that into account when you are finalizing your thicknesses.

You can play the mandolin in the white and, if necessary, adjust the thicknesses before you apply a finish. That's an advantage we don't have on flat top guitars with a fixed bridge.

Construction practices used on Gibson mandolins made after the mid to late '20's can be quite irregular. Taking thicknesses from a '30's model is risky.

Oh- I almost forgot-- don't use a Gibson fingerboard as a model for your fret location. Gibson boards were notoriously inaccurate. Lay your frets out using calculated dimensions or buy a pre-slotted board.

Good luck. And start studying every A model you see. You don't have to measure every one-- your eyes and your fingers can tell you an awful lot . . .

[peter.coombe]

You have an original, so that is about as good a start you can get. As already mentioned the GAL sells James' plans of a Gibson snakehead, so I would get that plan. Added to that I have documented the building of a Gibson style of oval hole mandolin on my web site here. What more could you possibly need?

[William Smith]

I wouldn't sell 30's Gibson mandolins short, the one you have in the shop if cheap enough can be improved on, I'm a huge fan of the 30's Gibsons due to all the variety within each model. The ones that stand out are the elevated board A models and the elevated board F-models, I personally think the F-hole A-50's from 35 with elevated boards are the most powerful short neck A's there are-I have one and it really has an F-5 sound! I've never had an elevated oval hole A but the few early 40's F-4's with elevated boards are such better sounding instruments than Loar era F-4's, to me anyway. It has always bugged me with all of Loars/other workers improvements why in the world didn't they elevate the boards on all models in the 20's!?!
30's A's with board glued flush to the top can be improved on if you know some tricks. It does make them better. They are all reasonably priced because most everyone is hung up on the "Loar" era mandolins. As stated above some of these great builders that posted have plans etc...I'd recommend learning what you can and even trying to modify a 30's Gibson A if it's in need of some repair. Myself I wouldn't modify any old Gibson if it was a real clean example. They are history and the nice ones should be left alone, that's just my opinion.

[William Smith]

I'm wanting to build a replica of a pre 1930s Gibson A-style mandolin. We have one at the shop. I believe its an A0 or an A1 and it has a failed top with multiple cracks in its very thin top. Everyone of these early mandolins that I have played have sung so sweetly. Does anyone recommend a supplier for good full size printed plans and a decent book that describes the build process to recreate one of these. I figure get my hands on plans and do a lot of reading first before I invest in tools jigs and materials. I have not built many acoustic instruments -- I don't really have the work space but I'd really like to try my hand at something like this. Its important to me to be as close to the Gibson as I can be. Plans and reading material is what I'm looking for. Suggestions please.

Also keep your eyes open you may find a Gibson with some real bad issues but the top in great shape so ya could just change tops?

[Wrnchbndr]

Much thanks everyone and thank you for the clarification of the gibberish about the mandolins' description. Often building a new instrument is much easier than repairing an older one - its a totally different thing -- the skill set is different. The A0 in my shop needs to be addressed by someone who is quite a bit more competent at what this wonderful instrument requires. But I have no problem looking at it with calipers and documenting what I am able to measure. I set limitations on myself for what I will attempt on existing instruments of value. If this Gibson needed a refret, no problem but I'm not up to the task of replacing the top with confidence. However, I'm willing to risk a couple hundred dollars of my own money on an adventure.

[Northwest Steve]

I can't remember who, but a luthier lists rims and neck blanks for a good price in classifieds from time to time. Seemed like a good deal if I were in the market.

[belbein]

I used Simonoff's book with the accompanying plans and thought it was simply great. I'm not a great fan of some of Simonoffs things (like tap tuning} , but the book is a great tool... At least as guideposts for how to proceed, if not or exactly what to do.