Column: Making a Living as a Musician

[mtm]

Coming to the mandolin relatively late in life, making a living in music doesn't apply to me, but I can't imagine a long music career that results in no retirement savings ...

I find it interesting that many of club-level shows I see that feature relatively young musicians, regardless of genre but usually acoustic or "americana", are attended primarily by an older crowd. Not a good sign. A BG band from Chicago has played a MKE bar on occasion, and i was heartened to see them get booked at a club with "pro" sound ... great show that sounded fantastic, but 15 people showed up. Depressing....

[pops1]

Seems where I live, in the middle of nowhere, the small towns have music. Not as much as they used to, but still a lot of small towns will have live music. There is a lot of competition in the cities, and now there is a fair amount of competition in the smaller towns too. Lots of folks playing out and more than you would think traveling a far piece to do it. The place I am playing tomorrow has recorded music on tues, live on wed, jam on thur, live or fri and sat. They stopped sun for the winter and closed instead. Will see what the summer will bring.

[Ted Lehmann]

I think many musicians share that sentiment, and so do fans.....

[Ted Lehmann]

Sometimes its heartless, sometimes disheartening. The game has changed a lot. I'm working on a piece about working social media to increase audiences. Seems to work.

[Ted Lehmann]

I like to remember that Mozart and Bach both had to have patrons to be able to afford to make music. Bach worked most of his life as a church organist. At least he had a good instrument....

[LadysSolo]

A fair number of bars here book local bands a couple night/week, but if you don't draw a crowd after a couple of times you won't be back. I don't have any idea what they pay though. A couple of nursing homes also book local bands once a month to entertain the residents, appreciative audience and they always attend!

[gtani7]

Everybody i talk to that's trying to make a living off it says it's a hustle, besides your live shows and selling CD's, you want to get as many paying students for lessons as you can, work as a manufacturer's rep or building websites for bands, develop other skills (studio or live sound, video editing, etc). Get a day job at Guitar Center or Sam Ash if you have to (which leads to a lot of conversations with industry people)

There's some good books about how to do the career hustle: Cutler, Beeching, Hirstand etc, which i mentioned in the middle of this other thread: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/s...s-(rumination)

[Ivan Kelsall]

As a pro. musician,unless you or your band become 'mega-popular' in whatever genre you play in,then i doubt if the cash you'd earn would be substantially more (if as much !) as a good day job - in the UK around £25,000 /year pre tax.= £481 UK /week = $652 US / week pre tax. If you have 3 or 4 piece band,that would equate to $652 x say 4 = $2608 per week. How many gigs would you need to play to earn that amount of cash ?.

It's still possible to become very wealthy as a pro.musician / singer,but only if you appeal to the teen market. Outside of that,you take a chance & 'hustle',
Ivan

[UsuallyPickin]

A satirical look at musicians and the music business ..... http://www.tdpri.com/threads/a-satir...ic-biz.174919/
Hunter S. Thompson said .... The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.” But we all still love to play....... Here's my favorite .... Mom when I grow up I want to be a ( your instrument here) ist..... Son you can't do both ..... In reality my Mother bought me my first guitar. Thanks Mom .... R/

[Mandobar]

My mother told me to have a backup plan, and I hate to say, she was right. Most of my conservatory mates are either no longer playing or teaching school (and not at the college level). There is an interesting video by a professor at Cedarville University (in Ohio) which has a very nice musical education program. It talks about expectations, and he quantifies his argument with statistics. There are just too few jobs out there for the amount of students graduating out of programs, let along the ones that are playing music outside of school. Here is a link to the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpaJOQWYrik

I have a friend who is a very famous touring musician (20 years, same band, and with many albums out, both solo and with the band and some side projects) told me that she still has to work hard at making a living. She teaches at a major conservatory, and we marvel at how many students go through there (undergrad as well as grad) thinking that life is going to be all rosy after they graduate. Many of these kids are paying full tuition (which is about $60k a year when all is said and done). How does one even begin to recoup those monies over a lifetime?

[MikeEdgerton]

....How does one even begin to recoup those monies over a lifetime?

Go back to school and become a lawyer or a doctor.

I am with you on this though. I have a friend that was in a well known 70's rock band. He's still playing music (7 nights a week I think) and teaching during the day as well as running a small recording studio. He isn't hurting but from the outside it doesn't appear that he's killing it financially. He's getting by and most likely loves what he is doing. He is working his tail off. I have another friend I went to high school with that is a professional pianist. Recording artist, well known in her field. I'm sure she's making a living as well and doing what she was raised to do but I'm not sure if she has made enough to pay back what her parents spent sending her to Julliard and Oberlin and elsewhere. She is also teaching. Most of us don't have to piece our income together. We go to work and we get a paycheck. That doesn't happen in the field of the professional musician very often. It takes a special kind of dedication to make the musical lifestyle work. It also takes some talent and a lot of luck.

Johnny Staats did it the right way.

[Charlieshafer]

luck.

And, there's the answer. There are way too many very talented people, and way too few slots at the top of the touring ladder to ascribe success to anything but this. We've all known too many deserving folks who don't make it, and those of lesser abilities that do. You can't cry about it, you just have to go into it knowing that this is how it is. I think every form or professional artistic expression is the same; dance, acting, fine arts, etc. You can't say that society doesn't place a value on the arts, as they do. Concert attendance is through the roof, and there are more venues of various sizes now than ever before. If anything, the number of venues and outlets for selling music have increased so dramatically, and at the same time the number of musicians taking advantage of this has also skyrocketed, that the total income now is watered down among the many. Demand has risen, but supply even more so. Just go into it smiling, and with the knowledge that this will most likely be a part of your life, not your entire life.

[Mandobar]

It’s economics, pure and simple. However there are limits to the number of clubs and venues available for performers. Many have closed, and there are not that many opening. Think of all those venues in NYC that were replaced by gentrification projects. There are a lot of fairly large names playing a little local club here on the Seacoast, and probably for a lot less $$ than they were getting let’s say 10 years ago at larger venues.

I have had a lot of MBA in Music students in my classes the last two years, which is part of a joint venture with Berklee. Most of these folks have no previous business experience, and really all they want to do is gig and record. I’m not sure how useful the program is to them, but it certainly adds to their expenses. It has also been quite frustrating to some as they don’t have the skill set to get through some of the required course material.

[MikeEdgerton]

Couple that with the changes in the recording industry in the last two decades and you are at the root of the problem. If you got as far as getting a recording contract from a major label or a subsidiary of a label 20 years ago you were going to make some money. My son was in business for a few years (too many actually) with a guy that made it in the industry as a writer and producer. He had a track record. He spent the last 15 years or so trying to recreate the magic. The problem is that the industry changed, it's still shaking out distribution and anyone with a CD burner can make a record. He was waiting for the next big paycheck that will probably never come. Thankfully my son finally moved on and is doing well. It is a tough industry.

[Willie Poole]

Play by night and build/repair mandolins by day...It worked for John Duffey...

[Charlieshafer]

I have had a lot of MBA in Music students in my classes the last two years, which is part of a joint venture with Berklee. Most of these folks have no previous business experience, and really all they want to do is gig and record. I’m not sure how useful the program is to them, but it certainly adds to their expenses. It has also been quite frustrating to some as they don’t have the skill set to get through some of the required course material.

This is really interesting to hear, Mary. Many, but not all, of the younger musicians I deal with, and some from Berklee, simply have no clue over basic business "behavior". Forget the financial aspect of music, they fail at the most basic necessities. Many communicate poorly, don't even try to develop a relationship with the folks that will be paying them. It's too much of a game to them, a lifestyle of hanging with friends, driving around, meeting other cool musicians. Even their use of social networking is infantile. They spend far too much time snapping selfies with other musicians at places that have no relevance to the venues where they'll be having shows in a week or so.

Ben Sollee's use of Instagram should be a role model for all musicians. During a tour he'll post about where he's going to be performing, yes, but in a way that speaks to the entire town. He'll post about a town's unique features, enjoying a restaurant, hiking along their trails: things that make a prospective concert-goer think, "Hey, this guy really likes and cares about our town and people, let's go!" Facebook works well for the "older" folks, but again, the posts can't just be a list of where you'll be, they have to show you're trying to connect with an entire town and that community. It's no different than the old business sales model of taking a client golfing. They need to make a personal and professional appearing connection to have any sense of credibility. Social media may not be the same as buying a golfing partner a martini, but it's a close as you can get.

In many ways, it's the "everything old is new again" scenario, personal (as close as you can get) connections rule the day.

We do host workshops, free to the public, with as many shows as possible, to allow the artist the time to form that deeper, loyal connection. It also builds incredible venue loyalty. Two months ago, it was Molly Tuttle, next weekend it'll be Ruth Ungar and Mike Merenda. The smart artists really appreciate this time, the dumb ones sleep in and miss the opportunity.

Business might change forms, but the one constant is that business is all about selling product. To sell product, no matter what, it's all about establishing connections, not snapping selfies.

As to the total number of venues, around here, they've increased exponentially. They are changing, though. For the most part, they're simply moving to smaller spaces. A good friend who runs the Connecticut Bluegrass club has gone from trying to put on big shows for 300+ people, with name acts, to using the Best Video Cultural Center in Hamden (kind of a cool concept) to host shows seating about 70. This means fewer shows with the Rhonda Vincents and Hot Rize's of the old, and more with the Mile 12's and Joe K. Walsh's Sweet Loams. But overall, in the 20+ years I've been doing this series, it went from one competing venue within 20 miles to over 30, all trying to do acoustic music. Some gave up, some got smaller, and new ones started, but it's more work than ever now from a venue's perspective to stay unique and keep your core audience.

Looking at things from a venue's perspective is pretty critical if you want to be a touring musician today, and that's a course in itself.

[CES]

I live near Charlotte, NC, and we’re blessed to have music venues ranging from the PNC Pavilion (which is a massive mostly outdoor venue suitable for huge shows and festivals with multiple stages) to small local rooms like the Davis theatre (seats 200) and Neighborhood Theatre (also fits < 500 but more standing room and a bar scene). Wingate College has an “acoustically perfect” auditorium where I saw Chris Thile and will be seeing Balsam Range in a few weeks. I’m amazed at the talent that comes through these venues...saw Junior Brown and Sarah Watkins at Neighborhood, and Gillian Welch and David Rawlings play there when they’re in town. Saw Grammy winning Jeremy Kittelman with Josh Pinkham on mando and Nat Smith on Cello (formerly with Sarah Jarosz) at the Davis (actually took those guys out for drinks and a late bar food dinner, got to play Josh’s Red Diamond, and got to spend some quality time with musical geniuses and good guys). Have seen Thile and Fleck at a larger venue, Sarah J and George Winston at a former church and now musical venue, and probably my favorite room is the Fillmore. It’ll fit maybe 1200-1500 folks, is standing room only, and have seen acts ranging from Judah and the Lion to Blue October to Willie Nelson to Pentatonix there. And, have seen the Avett Brothers multiple times in the area, one memorable night during which Grace Potter and the Nocturnals opened for them.

I list all of these names not to brag, or pretend I’m truly friends with any of these folks. No delusions of grandeur here, and no close relationships implied. I’m just truly humbled at the talent that’s willing to come to, sometimes, amazingly intimate venues. I’ve felt on almost all of these occasions that these venues were beneath the artists I was witnessing perform. Saw Ronda Vincent at another small local venue, and felt the same...”what are they doing playing here?” The answer is, they’re making a living doing what they love, against incredible odds. I’m so grateful that they’re doing this, and feel completely blessed to experience their talent. But, if Sarah Watkins is playing a room with 300 people (and totally killing it) and staying for a meet and greet afterwards, there’s no way a hack like me could make it in this business. So glad I have a day job that lets me support my family, buy some nice instruments, and enjoy making music almost every day, without any pressure. Man, I wish I had the talent to play with those mentioned above, for sure, but I’m immensely grateful they’re still sharing their gifts with us...

[re simmers]

I once asked a spectacular grass musician if he made a living in music. “Yes...well, sort of. I don’t have health insurance. I’ll never be able to own a house. My car isn’t very good and I can’t afford another one. I’ll never have a retirement account. But I love it. I teach. I play in 3 bands and I do some studio work. I get to travel a lot.”
But he is not a bandleader. People don’t buy tickets to see him perform. He’s a side man.
Maybe if youre entertaining enough for people to buy $40 tickets to see YOU - the “living” would be better.
Or....marry someone who carries health insurance.
I wonder if Skaggs did well when he played for JD, Boone Creek and Emmylou??? I’m sure it’s better when the band is called “Ricky Skaggs” and people are paying to see him.
I remember how shocked I was when Herschel Sizemore said he worked for a trucking/delivery company and only played music part time. He is a professional musician and tenor singer!!!

[Andy B]

I've mentioned this before but it seems relevant to this discussion--I started playing in local bands when I was in college 40 years ago and a good night's pay for the band was about $400, split four or five ways. Today, that is still a good night's pay for most of my gigs, but that $400 is worth a lot less than it was then, definitely not enough to live on today, though it might have been 40 years ago if you were inclined to thrift.

[Ivan Kelsall]

In a way,the whole music business,regardless of genre,has become too big to sustain many ''newcomers''. CES mentions that he's puzzled by ''what are they doing playing here ? '' = they have to. Money's money, & if you're only playing to a half dozen people,but you're still getting paid,then that's what you do.

I suppose that the situation with the really well known bands / artists,is that if a venue wishes to book you / your band,they pay the going price. Maybe if you're not well known,you take what they offer,usually 'not a lot'. I wonder what the ratio of smaller venues to auditoriums the top Bluegrass bands play at. I do know that even back in the days when top Folk musicians were playing the UK clubs,most clubs had a 'float',a back up pot of cash to make up for any shortfall in door takings. Not all the top Folk musicians 'filled' the clubs & you had to pay them. The profit made from the musicians who did fill the clubs,paid for the ones who didn't,
Ivan

[Charlieshafer]

Not sure how it is in the UK, but the business here is fine for the baby band acts to at least start getting noticed. There are more house concerts around than I've ever seen, and a number of smaller restaurant/bars that are giving acoustic music more time. I hate to hear people keep talking about the money: just figure you won't make any. If you start to make enough to become self-sustaining, then, wow! Most of the young bands I know and have presented know this quite well, they're attitude is simply to see how far they can go, hopefully tour around enough to see the country or parts of the world, and if after a couple of years it's not working out, do something else. Your life will be a miserable pit of regret if you don't head out, give it a try and see what happens. You just need to manage your own expectations, that's all. What was that song, "I beg your pardon, I never promised you a rose garden"?

When CES wonders what they're doing playing in small venues, it might be to add a little cash to the balance sheet, and many will take small gigs mid-week just to avoid a day of just expenses, but most really like to play. CES also lives right near where many of these artists live, so it's easy for them to take a gig that might seem small, but is a very nice payday as there are few, if any, expenses. The same is true for us with the musicians based on Boston or Brooklyn. Most of these artists in this niche though would be very happy with the income from a 300 seat, sold-out hall. On the flip side, they have to be careful not to play too much locally, or they can suffer from over-exposure.

As far as a big kitty in the back, those sort-of exist, but they're there in case of disaster. Every club, non-profit, performing arts center, etc., needs to try to make out in the black on each show. They've become cautious as to what to book, to make sure they can fill the minimum number of seats to break even and cover their basic cost of operation. A small 250 seat performing arts center [probably probably needs a minimum take of $1000 for each show just to open the doors. You need to figure in staff (including the person running the place all year long and maintenance, janitors, etc) heat, lights, advertising, etc. Take what the band might be able to pull in in a given area (i.e. bluegrass might pull in tons down south, but not up north), what price people might be willing to pay, and then hope for the best.

A couple of losing shows and that endowment disappears mighty quickly. This is why most all the performing arts centers now serve drinks and food throughout the performance. Without the bar take, each show is a gamble. A friend who is the bar manager for a large performing arts center said that the bar has definitely covered band costs on some slow nights. Food and drink make many of these mid-sized venues go, and the largest of these, if they're well established, have a great donor base and endowment to cover the occasional stinker.

Overall though, the folk world where baby bands perform, and old folkies hope to draw 100 or so max, have become the performers for the small, all-volunteer venue, which will rent out a church basement or in Chris's case, a video store, for low overhead and minimum sound requirements, give most all the money to the performers and keep just enough to cover the hard expenses.

At any rate, the venues are out there, it's a matter of salesmanship to get the gigs in place of the other bands. Sure, there's a lot of talent out there, but there always have been. But there's room to get in, you just need to be as creative in your marketing and communications as you are in your music.

[Folkmusician.com]

There were two kids in town that dreamed of doing lawn care. They bugged their parent for lawn mowers and practiced on their own yard for a few years and eventually were able to go out and get paying jobs.

The first kid loved what he did and invested money in a weed eater, and some other tools. He made up some flyers and started networking.

Kid two started similarly, but didn't really see the need to put up flyers or do any marketing. He also didn't buy a weedeater and instead found a friend with one and they agreed to split the gross.


Back to kid one, he just turned 16 and now has a driver's license, he gets a pickup and trailer, and some more equipment. He is finally doing well enough to hire his first employee.

Kid two, decides he needs a truck as well, so he finds someone to join them and split the gross.


Kid one now has a whole team and puts customer service as the number one priority. Business skyrockets.

Kid two now has a 5 piece (equal split), lawn service crew. They like to carve animals into the bushes and random patterns into the lawn. It doesn't really matter that this is not what the customers want, because it is all about the art.


Both of these kids had slow times where they had to take jobs doing small yards.
Kid one went by himself and did the work. The pay wasn't great, but it was enough.

Kid two, took the small job and rolled up with the whole crew.


The music business is already one of the single most difficult paths there is, yet most choose to make it impossible! Kid one would have a shot at making a living as a musician. Kid two, not so much.

[Troy Engle]

Playing bluegrass for a living is like any other small business. Some people have the desire to start a business, but it fails in months or years, due to not taking care of the business side of things. There really is not much "luck" involved. Yes, you need to get a "break", but if you don't follow through, and do your part it won't do you any good. Like a famous quote goes "the harder I work, the luckier I become". (or something close). Just like any other business, it's not the most talented that do well, it's the people that show up everyday, and give it 110%. I have been very blessed to own a house, raise a family, and provide health insurance for them, as a professional musician. Granted, much of what I did at that time was split between studio and the road, not just live gigs. It can be done, but it is very tough. You have to live way below your means, and work very hard (and I wish I would've worked even harder). Like any job, everything is a trade off, time with family, being gone, missing kids games, etc. Thank God the road days are behind me, but I'm thankful to still make a living playing music (studio work and composing music for TV shows), although it's a lot easier with 2 incomes and a spouse with benefits.
But I think it's good for fans to keep in mind, the sacrifices performers make to bring them music. I heard a fan say the other day, you guys make $300 for 2 hours of work (implying, it was too much money). I said we play music for free, we get paid for the other 22 hours a day of traveling! He had no problem making $50,000 a year driving truck. He only loaded truck 2 hours a day, what's the difference?

[Jess L.]

I read with interest & some disbelief about the areas with booming economies & vast choices of musical venues.

We don't live in such an area.

We live in a region of economic blight.

Here, nearly all the restaurants & even most of the taverns closed down many years ago, because the local populace can no longer afford to go to such places.

Even the last remaining open-mic tavern closed permanently years ago, they couldn't even make it selling cheap beer to customers listening to unpaid volunteer musicians. There are very few jobs of *any* sort here anymore, and the few jobs that do exist don't pay much (mostly minimum wage).

Given the choice between buying groceries or paying to hear live music, it's clear which one that people will choose.

Even New Year's Eve, precisely one establishment has a live band (rock music of course, that's the people's choice 'folk-music' of the modern era). The musicians aren't paid, it's basically a jam session. The last time we went there (for 2016-17 new year's) the entire place had 15 customers, most of whom were nursing one beer or one soda pop or one order of popcorn *all* night long... not exactly a money-maker for the place.

The only people here who aren't affected by the lack of jobs are the pensioners, especially those who moved to the region after a lifetime of working somewhere else, but most of them have little interest in live music. Recorded and/or homemade music is sufficient for them - understandable, given some of their health problems, and fixed-income budgets that don't go as far as they used to. It would take a minor miracle to persuade most of them to go out to hear live music.

In the last 20 or so years, there have been a couple of attempts by starry-eyed outsiders to bring music to the area. Didn't work out, the organizers sunk a ton of money into their ideas but ended up with nothing but debt & more boarded-up buildings.

I wonder how the rest of the country is doing - not so well, from what I hear, in many regions.

There are always going to be the success stories that people focus on, the major metropolitan areas where a sufficient number of residents have the interest & the money to go out on the town to hear live music.

So I guess if you're considering making a career as a touring musician, first get a crystal ball to see what your nation's economic condition is going to be like as time goes on. Some of the boom times are not sustainable.

My uncle, who successfully made it through the 1930s worldwide economic depression, told me that the only sure way to make a steady living as a musician is via studio work. He said forget about touring, also forget about staying in your hometown, instead pack up & "move to where the work is" and buckle down & do studio work, that way at least you'll have food on the table. You'll be anonymous, you probably won't even be credited for most of your creations, but as least you *are* making music - even if it's not necessarily your first choice of music.

I weighed these options as a teenager. Didn't fancy moving to some big city to play someone else's music, also didn't fancy playing to drunks in smoke-filled bars in the nearest town (we knew people who did, got the inside scoop). I never did have any desire to be a "star" - it's not my personality type - as I've mentioned before, I prefer playing backup, there's a lot more freedom in that even if you don't get a lot of recognition. But as to a career, meh, music as a job just didn't seem very appealing. Opted for non-music-related work instead.

I would guess that there are probably tons of super talented musicians all around the world, that the rest of us have never heard of, because they play for themselves & their families instead of going for the big-time.

Probably the same for any art form. The famous painters everyone's heard of, they didn't become famous by staying in their hometown unless they'd been born in Paris or something. They probably sacrificed a lot to pursue their art. Guess it all depends on what one's priorities & interests are.

[Jess L.]

... lawn service crew. They like to carve animals into the bushes and random patterns into the lawn. It doesn't really matter that this is not what the customers want, because it is all about the art. ...

Lol! A good lesson in that though.