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Thread: The Loar losing tune quickly

  1. #1

    Default The Loar losing tune quickly

    I just got a new The Loar 110 and I have noticed that it loses about a half-step of tuning overnight (G to F# etc.) I play bass guitar, where this doesn't happen, and am wondering if this is normal for a mando or if I'm going something wrong.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    That's pretty extreme. The first thing I recommend it to try getting some humidity into the house if you're not doing that already, or buy a Dampit for the mando.

    If you're already humidifying, check that the strings are nicely wrapped around the tuners-- at least 3 wraps to a post for the g's, 5 or more for the e's. If that's ok, you better have someone look it over for structural problems.

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    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    I am not sure of the quality of the strings they put on these when they send them out. Might also try a good name brand string.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    1/2 step on a new mandolin would be no big deal. String stretch, things settling. But it should stabilize. How long have you had the mandolin, and is it all strings, or just random strings?
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    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    Are these brand new strings? If so, I would say it is not unusual for them to go a bit flat overnight right after installing them. But not repeatedly. Otherwise, if recently installed, see rcc56's post, 2nd paragraph - either make multiple turns on the post or lock the string end under the tightened portion when you install the new string.
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    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    I'd say no big deal and just tune and play, mandolins are somewhat temperamental, heck my old 30's F-5's go sharp sitting. If its new like was said above things need to settle, I remember getting my one old F-5 and shipped to me with bridge off "cause I'm paranoid about damage!" it took some time to get the sound back once I set her up. I'm not familiar with your type of mandolin but maybe the tuners aren't that great or set-up problem?

  7. #7
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    Sounds pretty normal to me. Isn’t ‘mandolin’ Italian for ‘out of tune’?
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    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    My first question is: 'Is the neck bowing?'.

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    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    Doesn’t seem that out of the ordinary to me. Temp and humidity changes tuning a lot. Not only does humidity effect how the wood swells or shrinks, temperature effects how the steel strings may shrink or expand.

    At a minimum, I check tuning daily, but I usually check it every time I pick mine up, especially if I haven’t played in an hour or more.
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    Registered User Eric Hanson's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    I once heard a professional Mandolin player make the statement, “If you own a mandolin you will only spend 50% of the time playing it. The rest of the time you will be tuning it.”
    I am with the others. Check the neck. Check the strings. See how it plays out after a little bit of time. If it continues, have it checked by a luthier whom ou trust. They can find things you or I would see right away.
    I hope it works out well for you. When an instrument is finicky it can sure be frustrating.
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    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    - a neck that was detensioned for awhile, as one sitting in a shop or after a refret, needs some time to adjust to string tension, and mandolins have a lot of it.

    - try not to expose to big temp and humidity swings, like everybody says. Generally if it gets cold, it'll go sharp tho.

    - setup, pay for a luthier knowledgeable about mandolins else it's a waste of money, AND look thru Rob Meldrum's pdf ebook, check nut and bridge slots lubricated, all nuts/bolts on tuners, tailpiece, trussrod etc snug, bridge feet conform to top, bridge not leaning etc etc. It's complicated: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/s...by-Rob-Meldrum
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  13. #12

    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    thanks everyone! i’m thinking it’s probably the humidity. i’ll try to correct that and if that doesn’t work look into new strings and a tune up. thank you for being so helpful!

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    The very first thing i do if i buy a new instrument is put new strings on it. Only then do i know ''exactly'' what i've got. Try putting a new set of strings on it,tune it up & leave it for a day to give the strings time to bed-in around the string posts & then re-tune it. Play it & see how well the strings stay in tune. With new strings,they will take a day or so to settle in,but they should stay in tune pretty well. After that,just keep an eye on how well they stay in tune.

    We don't get the extremes of humidity in the UK that you folks get in the US,but temp.does affect my own mandolins. Cold,they go sharp,warmer,they go flat.

    It might also be that the slots in the nut (especially) & bridge are a tad rough & that the strings are binding & then releasing. Try polishing the nut slots with a small piece of ordinary note paper folded to give you a knife edge. You could also try a tiny bit of Graphite lubricant in them,but go easy on it,


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    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    For "graphite lubricant" read "B pencil". Happy new year Ivan!

    If it's new, it'll probably settle down but there are numerous reasons why mandolins can have tuning issues. They're not like a bass where you can get them in tune and then have them welded!

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    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    There's also the angled peghead issue, where the front and back of the peghead are not parallel but get narrower to each other at the top and sometimes the tuner pegs are not square to front of peghead and bind on the bushings. Just something to check for.

    In general, if each string has a couple wraps above the hole in the tuner peg and 3+ wraps below, it shouldn't be slipping. Some people advocate stretching new strings when you install them, you can do this just by tuning them a half step or a little more above concert pitch and then to concert pitch, I think that's gentler than pulling them way off the fingerboard which I've seen people do. Just don't stretch the E's aggressively!
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    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Hanson View Post
    I once heard a professional Mandolin player make the statement, “If you own a mandolin you will only spend 50% of the time playing it. The rest of the time you will be tuning it.”
    I am with the others. Check the neck. Check the strings. See how it plays out after a little bit of time. If it continues, have it checked by a luthier whom ou trust. They can find things you or I would see right away.
    I hope it works out well for you. When an instrument is finicky it can sure be frustrating.
    I always heard that a mandolin player spent half of the time tuning and the other half playing out of tune.

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  20. #17

    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    When my banjo does this it's almost always the nut pinching the strings. It will hang up in that slot and when you tune the mandolin and then play it'll let go and cause your strings to go flat every time my bet is this is the problem. I just got a new LM 700 and it's doing the same thing first thing I'm going to do is either fix the nut or just put a new one on but make sure you put graphite or pencil lead in the slots and if it's new the slots are probably not quite right.

    Banjomaniac

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    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    Quote Originally Posted by rb75man View Post
    When my banjo does this it's almost always the nut pinching the strings. It will hang up in that slot and when you tune the mandolin and then play it'll let go and cause your strings to go flat every time my bet is this is the problem. I just got a new LM 700 and it's doing the same thing first thing I'm going to do is either fix the nut or just put a new one on but make sure you put graphite or pencil lead in the slots and if it's new the slots are probably not quite right.

    Banjomaniac
    If your strings go flat it is not the nut pinching unless you are tuning down to the note. Always tune up and if a nut slot pinches it will go sharp, not flat.
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  22. #19

    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    And check the tightness of the screws holding the gear to the bottom of the tuning post. If they get loose, snug the screws up a bit until they stop allowing the post to slip because of the string tension. It shouldn't take much to correct the problem. Also, seek out Frank Ford's web site for more information on tuner maintenance. Very informative reading.

    Len B.
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    Registered User Eric Hanson's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandoplumb View Post
    I always heard that a mandolin player spent half of the time tuning and the other half playing out of tune.
    And there IS that also.
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    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    I have the same model. Took a while to get it set up right. It goes a bit out tune sometimes, but I think that's normal for most mandolins.

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    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    Along with temperature and humidity changes, I'd go with strings binding in the nut too (aka tight slots). In my experience having one or two strings bind at the nut make can make the whole mandolin go subtly out of tune, and of course it makes the process of tuning extremely frustrating.
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    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    Once you've addressed the nut slot problem (if there is one) with graphite lubrication, and you've ascertained whether there's unusual "play" in the tuning pegs -- and you've played it for a few days to work the "stretch" out of the strings -- see if you're still having a consistent problem of the instrument going a half tone flat when left unplayed for a few hours.

    If you are, something's moving somewhere. It may be where the strings are attached at the tailpiece, which may be deforming or coming loose from where it's attached to the end block. It may be the top sinking, which would decrease string tension and lower pitch; this can occur from dryness, or from bracing failure, when the curve of the top flattens out. It may be string tension pulling the neck forward due to weakness in the joint that holds neck to body. You could see this if a gap appears between the heel of the neck and the body. It could be the bridge saddle lowering toward the body, if the posts and thumb-wheels aren't keeping it at a steady elevation about the instrument's top.

    I had an Autoharp once that kept going slightly flat; I'd tune it back to pitch, and next day it'd be down a quarter-tone, all strings from bass to treble. I took it in for inspection, and found the pin block had loosened, and string tension was rotating it very slightly but consistently. I had the pin block re-set and glued, and the instrument stabilized.

    Instruments do go out of tune, due to environmental conditions as well as the force of being played. Old strings may get metal fatigue and fail to hold pitch. But a consistent change, every time you take it out and play it, could well be related to some type of structural change. If you can't clearly diagnose it yourself, wouldn't hurt to have a pro repair tech look at it.
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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    Well put Allen - Things going 'consistently' wrong,usually have an underlying problem. It's something to be monitored to see what happens. It might settle down to have virtually no problems at all like most mandolins (?).

    Ref.Len's post #19 & Frank Ford's website - look here :- http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musi...geartune3.html Ivan
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  30. #25

    Default Re: The Loar losing tune quickly

    I remember having much the same problem when I got my first mandolin, an Eastman 505. I do think mandolins are more prone to tuning issues than other string instruments, being that the shortness of scale amplifies the small changes in the wood. I do use the graphite in the nut and bridge, but this remedies different issues. Do make sure your nut slots are cut correctly, especially if you get that pinging as you tune up or down. That is caused by the nut slots grabbing the strings.
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