Loar Period F-4 Mandolins

[Troy Harris]

It took me many years, but I finally found a Loar period F-4 in excellent original condition with no history of repairs or damage. The inside of the instrument is very clean and the labels are in great condition. The neck is perfectly straight with excellent projection and bridge height. The mandolin was in storage for the last 10 or 15 years. When I installed new strings and tuned it up, the intonation was perfect. I did not need to move the bridge or make a truss rod adjustment. The frets are original as well. The case is also in excellent condition. This mandolin really hits the mark for me.

[Troy Harris]

Style F-4
1925 shipment date (according to Spann's Guide to Gibson)
Serial 78538
Factory Order Number 11922 (1923 manufacture date according to Spann's Guide to Gibson)
Virzi No. 10492

[Troy Harris]

Details:
Truss rod
Flowerpot inlay
Small dot locating pin above the inlay “The” on the peghead
Round-end tuners, worm under configuration, coffee color buttons
Dovetailed points (only dovetailed on the top of each point)
Virzi
Adjustable bridge with patent stamp Jan, 18-21
Clamp pickguard with patent stamp Mar, 30,’09
Stamped tailpiece
Red-lined hardshell original case

[Marty Jacobson]

Great find, it's a thing of beauty.

[Troy Harris]

The F-4 design changed with the development of the F-5, creating a lot of variation in the Loar period F-4 mandolins. I welcome your comments and more photos of Loar period F-4 mandolins.

[Glassweb]

Can't do better than that! Congrats! Now play the hell out of (or into) it!

[Skip Kelley]

Wow, that is in pristine condition! Congratulations on that find! To me that is my favorite mandolin in every way!

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Congratulations, Troy. Seems like a wonderful mandolin; those are my favorite F4s.
You mention (and one of your pics shows) the points being dovetailed into the top binding only, which makes me think the Virzi on your F4 was retrofit. In order to install the Virzi, Gibson apparently sawed off the back along with the lower dovetail and part of the back binding, which is now slightly lower/narrower (depending on the view) now than the top binding. Happened to several mandolins, including some Loar F5s with similar signs.

[Troy Harris]

Henry, Thank you for the observation. That’s interesting. The depth of the back binding is less than the top, especially on the treble side.

[ajh]

Really...how much did you sell my children for to get that?

[darrylicshon]

Very nice one of my favorite

[Timbofood]

Labels? No pictures?
I’m not casting aspersions, just jealous!!!

[LadysSolo]

Wow! Great find, congratulations! Enjoy!

[Loudloar]

Beautiful mandolin and case. A while back we had a very involved discussion about the shaped F cases on the Facebook Vintage Case group. https://www.facebook.com/groups/vint...strumentcases/ In the teens they were too short for an F-5, and at some point they were lengthened so they could hold an F5 as well as an F4 or F2. We knew the cases were longer by the 30's. After examining a lot of photos I came to the conclusion that the shaped F cases were lengthened about the time the F-5 came out. (Makes sense.) The case number remained #371 but the specifications changed. The new version was stretched just a bit in the neck/compartment area. The difference in length is not much, just a half to three quarter inch. Troy's case looks like the longer version. There's a bit of space above the tip of the head stock. Earlier versions are a pretty tight fit.

Steve

[HoGo]

Nice clean one! The finish looks like it might have lacquer overspray - common with '25 shipment dates.
I wonder how the point protectors' dovetails look from the "neck" side.
Cool how they forgot to clean the binding at the scroll of the back.

[Troy Harris]

Steve, Thank you for the information about the case. This case has plenty of room for the tip of the peghead. I will take more photos of the case when I have better light in the shop.

Adrian, I think you may be right about the lacquer overspray, but the overspray must be very thin. The varnish exhibits very fine crazing perpendicular to the grain. The instruments that I have seen with lacquer overspray typically have long and pronounced craze lines.

The dovetails are at an angle. Only on the left side of the point can you see the dovetail. It’s the same on both points.

[gweetarpicker]

Here's a 1923 F4. Lots more wear but an amazing woody tone: open and loud with full rich bass and sparkly highs. It really carries the banner for oval hole mandolins. No virzi, the edge of the pickguard has been notched I'm guessing to make room for a pickup sometime in the past.


www.vintagefrettedinstruments.com

[William Smith]

Very Nice F-4's! There was a Loar era F-2 with a virzi on Reverb a month or so ago at a great price and in spectacular condition, if I didn't have to much going on I would've loved to have and play that one! There are a bunch of virzi F's and A's for sale lately at different places and on evilbay! I always wondered with all the improvements to the F-2 and 4 during the Loar era why it took em to the mid 30's for A models and late 30's early 40's to elevate the fret boards on the F-4? It seems they should've done that in the 20's to them along with the F-5? I personally believe if that was done they would be better mandolin's by far? Any thoughts?

[danb]

I agree with Henry- well spotted.

The other interesting detail is the '25 style tuners with the "bump ends" compared to arrow ends on some other examples.

The 2 FON-mates I have for it both have virzis. One has matching tuners, another has 2 coffee buttons on arrow-end plates!

[Troy Harris]

Another interesting detail about the tuners is the worm under configuration. It appears that shortly after this tuner plate style was introduced, the configuration was changed to worm over the gear. I have found very few examples of worm under round-end tuners. I understand the mechanical advantage of the worm over the gear, but it really changed the esthetic of the tuners and peghead. The worm over F-style tuner require extra long button shafts and the A-style tuner buttons are positioned higher on the peghead. Changed the look altogether.

[Troy Harris]

Some more photos of the case and sides.

[Jim Garber]

Very nice, Troy! I especially love those coffee-colored buttons but I believe I have only seen them on A-4 snakeheads. I haven't looked at the Archives but don't recall them on an F-4. That one is a real beauty.

I had a nice 24 F-4 but I think the fretboard needed re-intonations/re-fretting and I was not that fond of it to hold onto it. My 23 back A2 is fine tonewise for me. They are all different, of course.

[Timbofood]

You guys are just mean! I would love one, so, when someone finds under a bed or just needs a good home, let me know and I will get out fresh strings and soft cloths for cleaning and restringing! I can send the address anytime!

[Cary Fagan]

I've always wondered about Loar period F4s. People always talk about the difference of paddle head and snakehead A mandolins. Nut width, tone, etc. Are later F4s comparable in feel and tone to snakeheads?

[Steve Ostrander]

That's a dandy, right there!