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Thread: Oval Hole F

  1. #1

    Default Oval Hole F

    I know that most oval hole mandolins are As and are usually not used for bluegrass but Irish and Celtic. The Fs on the other hand are usually f-holes and used for bluegrass. There are always exceptions to these so would an oval hole F be the best of both worlds if you were looking to cover all genres? Just a thought.

  2. #2
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    The distinction is oval-hole vs. f-hole, not F-model vs A-model. An A-model with f-holes will sound perfectly acceptable for bluegrass; it'll have the sharp attack, quick decay that works so well for rhythm "chopping." It just won't look like the F-models that all the bluegrass stars seem to play (I know there are exceptions, but the F-model is the template for bluegrass mandolins).

    There aren't many oval-hole F-models made any more. Eastman makes the MD514, for one, and I guess higher grade "14" models -- I've seen an MD814, though I don't know if they're currently made. The small builder Howard Morris gets Cafe support for his oval-hole F-models. And, of course, there are always vintage Gibson F-2's and F-4's.

    Were I in your place, I'd decide on the sound I wanted first, and pursue that regardless of whether the mandolin has a scroll or not. "Covering all genres" is possible with any one of the types of instrument you mention; its' the individual make and model that you find is closest to your looked-for sound.

    F-model vs A-model is mostly a matter of appearance, rather than sound. Oval-hole vs f-hole is the real question you need to settle.
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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    Zip along to 30.32 mins in this YouTube clip & listen to the Northfield Oval hole NF-2S model that Adam Steffey's playing. To my ears,it sounds terrific & personally,i wouldn't hesitate to use it in a Bluegrass context,
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    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    Oval hole mandolins, to me, have a more intimate sound... which I like. And, yeah, the scroll and points and bling neither detract nor add to the sound of the instrument. I have a wonderful sounding Collings A style oval hole, but I'm sure my life would be more fulfilling if my mandolin had a scroll and points like this Collings MF-O.

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    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    The F body with an oval hole is IMO a very beautiful combination aesthetically. I saw one or two in the classifieds.
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    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    An oval F might be my next big purchase.... now that I'm thinking about it I can already feel a case of MAS setting in.

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    Registered User Michael Neverisky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    The F body with an oval hole is IMO a very beautiful combination aesthetically.
    I agree! The only *problem* with the one at TME (aside from it costing about $8k more than I have) is the toasted top. I've not heard an instrument with a torrified top - guitar or mandolin - that is to my liking. So maybe if it had an englemann top and sounded exactly like my MTO I would be more tempted. Which shows how silly the cosmetics are.

  10. #8

    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    I can tell you, having owned an MF5 oval (engelman), an MTO and several MT2O's (including an engelman and birdseye model), the torrified top one has something different. A looseness that you don't get with engelman, and with an added push in volume. Don't make a judgement on the Collings torrified-topped mandolins until you play one. I pooh-poohed them and then played several.
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    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    Don't lose sight over the neck joint and bracing. Stereotypes about oval v. F-hole. Get muddled today as hybrid ovals use 15-fret neck joints and other-than-transverse bracing.

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    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/118969#118969

    Looky there. Nfi, of course. Seems like a good deal too.

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    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandobar View Post
    A looseness that you don't get with engelman, and with an added push in volume. Don't make a judgement on the Collings torrified-topped mandolins until you play one.
    Fair comment. I hope I can get to test drive the one at TME before it gets scooped. In the several torrified guitars I have played, it is what others hear as "responsiveness" and "power" that I hear as strident and shrill. Having played them side by side, I can definitively say that to my ears, a non-cured Martin Authentic series guitar has an inspiring tone. The same model in VTS has a tone, particularly in the trebles, which I fine annoying.

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    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Wilson View Post
    https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/118969#118969

    Looky there. Nfi, of course. Seems like a good deal too.
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    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    The F body with an oval hole is IMO a very beautiful combination aesthetically. I saw one or two in the classifieds.
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    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    I played both a Collings and a Northfield oval today at Gryphon. Both were very good mandolins and way more versatile than the Gibson A4 they have. Oh, that vintage Gibson oval tone is to die for, but either the modern mandolins can play bluegrass.
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    en kunnskapssřker James Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    From what I gathered from the locals is the F holed mandolins cut through the fiddle noise when playing in bands. Oval mandolins don't have the punch needed to stand out when fiddles (and similar instruments) are played.
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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    From above - "Oval mandolins don't have the punch needed to stand out when fiddles (and similar instruments) are played."
    That's not always true !. I used to own a Weber 'Beartooth' oval hole "A" style,the volume of which was VERY loud & punchy. The only reason that i don't have it is because it developed a warped neck & i part ex'd it with my dealer.

    It depends to an extent on how hard you pick 'em as well. Another UK Cafe member brough his 2 Paul Shippey mandolins down to my home a couple of years back. Both ''oval holes'', & not ''built for Bluegrass'' - but they were superb mandolins & i wouldn't hesitate to use one in a Bluegrass context as they were quite capable of being played loudly without any 'distortion' = it depends on the individual mandolin. Having said that,i've played several F5 'style' ,mandolins over the years,which because of poor set ups were incapable of 'cutting through' the other instruments in a Bluegrass band context. As i say,it does depend on the instrument & the player.

    Jimmy Martin owned (so i believe), a Gibson F4 oval hole mandolin that was used on all his recordings. None of his mandolin players had any trouble getting it to sound ok :- ''Big Country'' - Bill Yates on Mandolin.


    I can't remember which 2 they are,but 2 of Bill Monroe's best know instrumentals were recorded with BM playing an F4 mandolin,
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    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    I prefer an A oval over a F oval . Why ? I don't know ! I suppose deep down I feel that a F style should be for Bluegrass but I know this is silly ! I did have an Old Wave oval and it was very good and why I sold it I don't know ! The sound I really like best however is the hybrid oval long neck Girouard mandolin which I have heard and played with.

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    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    I think it is a real challenge to have one mandolin excel in all situations. They are built surprisingly differently (neck to body join, elevated fretboard or not, bracing (tone bar vs a parallel brace. The F hole mandolin was built by Loar to help the instrument cut through for classical music (at the time). Your Old Time and Celtic players aren't going to care too much what instrument you bring to the mix while Bluegrassers have more expectations on an f-holed mandolin.

    The hybrid oval hole builds (more frets free of the body 12 vs 10) and the elevated finger board bring an oval's tone closer to an F hole mandolin but there are still differences. There aren't tons of lower priced Oval Hole F shaped mandolins Eastman covers it well. But Collings, Weber (and whatever Bruce is calling his new venture), Breedlove (K shape), Northfield, and plenty of small shop builders do build them. The F shape vs the A shape body don't really affect the sound. If I played 10 f holed A and F shaped mandolins and 10 oval holed A or F shaped mandolins you would just be guessing which was which body style.

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    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    That's Vernon Derrick playing on the Jimmy Martin recording of "Big Country," a tune that Derrick wrote, and from the sound of it, and the other mandolin solos on that record, I would be surprised if he was playing Jimmy's F4 (although that F4 was a great bluegrass mandolin, especially in the hands of Paul Williams).

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  27. #20
    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    I have the Epiphone masterbilt mm40 L which is great for jazz and looks trrrific too. You can get a surprisingly decent chop out of an oval hole but you lose a bit of presence and volume. I do recommend the Epiphone though.

  28. #21

    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    OP wrote:
    "There are always exceptions to these so would an oval hole F be the best of both worlds if you were looking to cover all genres?"

    I'd get one of the newer "hybrid" style oval-hole mandolins with a full-length fingerboard such as the Northfield F2s (satin) series or perhaps a Collings MF-O.

    The Northfields sell for around $3,000 new, $2,000 range used.
    Collings, of course, will cost more.

    For less money, perhaps an Eastman oval...

  29. #22
    My Florida is scooped pheffernan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    Quote Originally Posted by Torpedotom View Post
    There are always exceptions to these so would an oval hole F be the best of both worlds if you were looking to cover all genres?
    The most versatile compromise would most likely be a modern A5, but it's more fun to have a different specialized mandolin for each genre!
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    Registered User Al Trujillo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    I'd probably die if a Weber Vintage F dropped out of the sky into my arms.
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    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall View Post
    From above - "Oval mandolins don't have the punch needed to stand out when fiddles (and similar instruments) are played."
    That's not always true !. I used to own a Weber 'Beartooth' oval hole "A" style,the volume of which was VERY loud & punchy. The only reason that i don't have it is because it developed a warped neck & i part ex'd it with my dealer.

    It depends to an extent on how hard you pick 'em as well. Another UK Cafe member brough his 2 Paul Shippey mandolins down to my home a couple of years back. Both ''oval holes'', & not ''built for Bluegrass'' - but they were superb mandolins & i wouldn't hesitate to use one in a Bluegrass context as they were quite capable of being played loudly without any 'distortion' = it depends on the individual mandolin. Having said that,i've played several F5 'style' ,mandolins over the years,which because of poor set ups were incapable of 'cutting through' the other instruments in a Bluegrass band context. As i say,it does depend on the instrument & the player.

    Jimmy Martin owned (so i believe), a Gibson F4 oval hole mandolin that was used on all his recordings. None of his mandolin players had any trouble getting it to sound ok :- ''Big Country'' - Bill Yates on Mandolin.


    I can't remember which 2 they are,but 2 of Bill Monroe's best know instrumentals were recorded with BM playing an F4 mandolin,
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    Default Re: Oval Hole F

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall View Post
    Zip along to 30.32 mins in this YouTube clip & listen to the Northfield Oval hole NF-2S model that Adam Steffey's playing. To my ears,it sounds terrific & personally,i wouldn't hesitate to use it in a Bluegrass context,
    Ivan

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    I have listened to this before but not thru good headphones. Some great sounding mandolins in his hands. The A5 Engelmann vs Red Spruce top comparison was pretty

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