Mazas: 12 petits duos (Op. 38), with score

[Martin Jonas]

Yet more mandolin duos!

Jacques Féréol Mazas (1782-1849): Douze petits duos / 12 Violin Duos (Op. 38, 1833)
Duo I:
Allegro Maestoso - 0:00
Romance (Andante) - 3:01
Rondo (Allegretto) - 5:20

This is the first duo from a collection of instructional violin duos by Mazas which are widely used in violin teaching, but translate very nicely to mandolins as well. I've been using the attached PDF edition at IMSLP, a recent transcription of Bloch's 1908 edition (I'm a big fan of Bloch's own violin trios, btw):

http://imslp.org/wiki/18_Violin_Duos...3%A9r%C3%A9ol)

I have used the fairly slow tempi indicated in the PDF for the first two movements: 132bpm and 92bpm. For the third movement, the suggested tempo was 138 bpm at six to the bar. That seemed far too slow to me for an allegretto movement, so I increased it quite a bit -- although most online versions are nevertheless faster than mine. These metronome suggestions seem to come from the transcriber, rather than Bloch or indeed Mazas.

Nothing technically difficult here, and all first position, but good fun!

Played on two bowlbacks:

Mandolin 1: 1890s Umberto Ceccherini (right channel)
Mandolin 2: 1915 Luigi Embergher (left channel)

Artwork by Eugene Delacroix, a contemporary of Mazas.



Martin

[crisscross]

Sounds nice!
Do you know the book Jacques-Féréol Mazas Duos für Mandolinen by Erich Repke?
I don't know which violin duos exactly are included, but it shows, where to use tremolo.
In the first movement, you use tremolo for notes that are longer than one beat, don't you?
https://www.alle-noten.de/Gitarre-E-...andolinen.html

[Martin Jonas]

Sounds nice!
Do you know the book Jacques-Féréol Mazas Duos für Mandolinen by Erich Repke?
I don't know which violin duos exactly are included, but it shows, where to use tremolo.
In the first movement, you use tremolo for notes that are longer than one beat, don't you?
https://www.alle-noten.de/Gitarre-E-...andolinen.html

Thanks, Criss.

Yes, I have decided to tremolo all notes longer than a beat -- it sounded right for the piece. Mazas and/or Bloch have variously notated the crotchets as staccato, detached and as legato, but wheras these are distinct in violin terms, we are somewhat more limited on the mandolin and I'm not sure it makes sense here to try to reproduce these distinctions here. I have, however, mainly stuck with Bloch's fingerings, in particular as to where to use the opne strings and where to use the fourth finger.

I know of Erich Repke, but not his Mazas edition. Given Repke's very definitive views on mandolin technique and tremolo playing, I would treat his advice on where to use tremolo with a very large pinch of salt.

Martin

[crisscross]

I know of Erich Repke, but not his Mazas edition. Given Repke's very definitive views on mandolin technique and tremolo playing, I would treat his advice on where to use tremolo with a very large pinch of salt.

Could you try to explain that, Martin?
I didn't know Repke before I got the Mazas edition published by the Friedrich Hofmeister Musikverlag. https://www.hofmeister-musikverlag.c...mandolinen.htm
There's another book edited by him with duets by the French violinist Charles Dancla https://www.hofmeister-musikverlag.com/duos-1694.html
Yesterday, I played and recorded the first duet in this book.
For my personal taste, the amount of tremolo is just right.
I recorded the duet exactly as it is notated, maybe a bit too slow, but I tremoloed only where it was indicated.
Maybe in his 3 part method, Repke is averse to tremolo? I don't know that method.

[Martin Jonas]

Could you try to explain that, Martin?
I didn't know Repke before I got the Mazas edition published by the Friedrich Hofmeister Musikverlag. https://www.hofmeister-musikverlag.c...mandolinen.htm
There's another book edited by him with duets by the French violinist Charles Dancla https://www.hofmeister-musikverlag.com/duos-1694.html
Yesterday, I played and recorded the first duet in this book.
For my personal taste, the amount of tremolo is just right.
I recorded the duet exactly as it is notated, maybe a bit too slow, but I tremoloed only where it was indicated.
Maybe in his 3 part method, Repke is averse to tremolo? I don't know that method.

Dancla is great -- I've recorded one of his duos and one of his trios myself (link) -- we still play the trio frequently as a bit of fun with our ensemble. You may also want to check out Bloch and de Beriot as sources of good duets and trios. All at IMSLP - no need to look for specific mandolin editions.

Funnily enough, my comment on Erich Repke and his position on tremolo derives from a link you posted yourself in this thread on German and Italian mandolin technique.

Die Mandoline in der DDR

In particular this passage on pp. 41/42 (apologies to the non-German speakers):

"Ausgangspunkt von Erich Repke war das Ende des romantischen Spielstils der Mandoline. Er nannte es, die italienische Manier aus dem Handgelenk zu spielen. Schon seit den dreißiger Jahren bemühten sich Erneuerer der Zupfmusikwie Herrmann Ambrosius und Konrad Wölki zurückzukehren zu einer Hauptspieltechnik der Einzeltöne, fern vom Tremolo (s. Kap. 6. 1 „Die Zupforchester - Entwicklung bis 1949 in Deutschland“ S. 67). Für die Musiker in den Orchestern klang der Einzelton erst einmal spitz und hart. Sie wußten nicht, wie man einen vollen, schönen Klang produzieren konnte. Das Ohr mußte erst wieder an die feinen Töne gewöhnt werden. In dieser Zeit ist auch der Ansatz von Erich Repke zu suchen. Erich Repke, der ursprünglich von der Geige kam, begegnete der Mandolinenorchestertradition und damit ganz sicher auch der italienischen Spielmanier in seinem Heimatort Rathenow. Dort leitete er das ansässige Orchester „Fidelitas 1912“. Nun gab es zwei Wege. Entweder experimentierte man mit den bestehenden Grundlagen (Handgelenktechnik), vielleicht in Richtung Material, Materialstärke, Form, Haltung des Plättchens, Anschlagsrichtung, Anschlagswinkel, Erforschung und Studium der klassischen Mandolinenschulen oder man stellte die gesamten Grundlagen des Instruments (und damit auch zwangsläufig seine Geschichte) in Frage. Den ersten von mir aufgezeigten Wegverfolgten Musiker wie Konrad Wölki sehr beharrlich. Für den zweiten Weg entschied sich Erich Repke. Immer wieder setzte er sich in seiner Methodik mit der italienischen Manier auseinander. (...)

Ohne die traditionelle Spielweise zu beherrschen, ergriff Erich Repke das vorhandene Instrument und erfand das Mandolinenspiel neu."

In essence, Repke was the leading East German mandolin theorist of the post-war era and tried to re-invent mandolin technique from first principles by rejecting both the Italian romantic tradition with its emphasis on tremolo and the revisionist approach following during the Nazi period (and then continued in West Germany) by Wölki and Ambrosius. He himself came from the violin and had not mastered traditional mandolin technique, nor was he interested in learning it as he pursued his own East German Sonderweg.

That's a bit too much ideological weight being put on the shoulders of tremolo technique and reading through that paper and the (very interesting, if controversial) paper posted by Stefanie Acquavella-Rauch in the same thread leads me to suspect that neither Wölki nor Repke were guided primarily by musical considerations in their educational materials.

Martin

PS: Very well played on the Dancla duet! The original violin edition of Op. 60 is at IMSLP here.

[JeffD]

I love playing Mazas. When I was taking violin lessons, at a certain point it became kind of obvious I wasn't going to be a fiddler. So we used the time, once a week, to play duets from Mazas Fifteen Duos Abecedaires Op 85. Me on manodlin, teacher on violin.

Great and amazing fun. Lots of riffs passed back and forth and it was interesting to hear the difference in tone and articulation between violin and mandolin. It kind of added another layer of entertainment.

My teacher has moved on, and I have been searching for someone to play duets with.

[crisscross]

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question so elaborately, Martin!
I had completely forgotten the exam work by Ariane Zernecke.
As you say, there shouldn't be too much ideological weight being put on the shoulders of the tremolo technique, but the one thing I can say is, that for my personal taste, it sounds more appropriate, if tremolo is only used for the longer notes, the way it is done in this Dancla edition, as oppsed to tremolo on eighth notes, the way it is tought in the de Cristofaro method for instance.
I'll check out Bloch and de Beriot for sure, thanks for the link!

[Martin Jonas]

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question so elaborately, Martin!
I had completely forgotten the exam work by Ariane Zernecke.
As you say, there shouldn't be too much ideological weight being put on the shoulders of the tremolo technique, but the one thing I can say is, that for my personal taste, it sounds more appropriate, if tremolo is only used for the longer notes, the way it is done in this Dancla edition, as oppsed to tremolo on eighth notes, the way it is tought in the de Cristofaro method for instance.
I'll check out Bloch and de Beriot for sure, thanks for the link!

I'm not saying that I necessarily disagree with Repke's editorial tremolo marks in the Mazas or any other score -- I haven't seen them but in general agree that excessive tremolo gets tiring very quickly and tremolo should therefore be used judiciously outside the appropriate genres. e.g. Neapolitan songs or Golden Age romantic mandolin compositions. I was just encouraging you to use your own musical judgment and not to treat Repke's preferences as set in stone -- as these are violin compositions, there is no "right" amount of tremolo, only personal preferences which may be more or less appealing to the player and/or listener.

Martin