Advice for Children

[kahlanne]

First of all let me thank you for any advice you give. I am not a musical person but would like my kids to be. I have 6 children, one of which is in college. This Christmas we gifted my son a years worth of private lessons and a nice guitar before he heads off to college next year. My teen is doing a great job of teaching herself to play the ukulele using online tutorials. My question is for my younger three children, 11, 8, and 6. They have all expressed interest in learning to play an instrument but it is my 11 year old that has more specific tastes. She is interested in fiddle, banjo, and mandolin. A friend gifted us a beginner set of children's drums which I have to wait until after Christmas to find room to unbox and set up. Drums have never been mentioned as an interest and I am beyond rhythmically challenged so they baffle me as to their difficulty especially with online tutorials. So my dilemma is should I convince my 11 year old to try the drums or should I start her with one of the instruments she prefers? If the latter, I could allow my younger children to try the drums. Regardless of which instruments I choose, it would have to be relatively cheap lessons online for the time being. Sharing instruments, other than the drums, isn't really an option either for various reasons. I know this is a mandolin forum and my question is more than mandolin but I am hoping you can guide me in the right direction. Since I am here, you may have guessed that I am leaning toward purchasing the mandolin for 11 year old but have no knowledge of whether it is something a child can learn from online lessons or if another option would be better.

Thanks again for any advice.

[OneChordTrick]

Do your children want to be musical? If their interests lie in other directions let them follow them. And if they want to be musical let it be on an instrument of their choosing. If they're to be successful by any measure they'll need to practice and will be far more inclined to practice an instrument of their choosing rather than yours.

Hope this didn't sound too blunt

[EdHanrahan]

... should I convince my 11 year old to try the drums or should I start her with one of the instruments she prefers?

Disclaimer: I don't have kids BUT I vividly remember having been one.
Observation: Approaching codgerness at 71, I'm amazed at how many DON'T remember having been kids.

That said:

A kid's interest is a kid's interest, and trying to convince them otherwise is a futile effort. Plus, interest in a melodic instrument is vastly different from interest in a rhythmic instrument, like drums. ("Son, I know you really wanted that '57 Chevy, but I got you this nice ox-cart instead.")

The good part is that the skills of mandolin and fiddle are somewhat common, and banjo utilizes much of the same knowledge. To us mandolin players, fiddle has a learning bump in that bowing is more difficult than picking, and the lack of frets makes it almost mandatory(!) to produce bad notes early on. But, if she WANTS to learn, she will - on any of them.

Obviously slanted opinion: Mandolin is easier to start than fiddle, and no learning will be "wasted" on the way. In favor of banjo is that the strings tend to be more supple than mandolin's fairly tight pairs, and much easier on young fingertips. OTOH, banjo's neck is a longer reach... I'll stop now!

... could allow my younger children to try the drums ...

Uhmmm ...

My my bottom line: HARNESS their interest, don't try to change it or enforce yours.

Edit: OneChord: Thanks for saying the same with far more economy!

[Northwest Steve]

HIDE THE DRUMS........... Hopefully you have room in the garage or a corner of the basement. They could be annoying to listen to.
If you have some one interested in certain instrument they will likely be more interested and likely to stick with it if they play something they are interested in.
For mandolin lessons -
mandolessons.com is a great resource and free - he does ask for a donation to keep the site going if you use them
YouTube - Braid Laird (has inexpensive lesson material on his web site also), Don Julin, Pete Martin, Mike Marshall among others
Don Julin started Mandolins Heal the World - he had a discount for 3 months of lessons or can do monthly (month here and there)
Peghead Nation offers one month free lesson and then you can do monthly lessons after that.

Fiddle -
There are some lessons on Fidddlerman
I am sure there are many resources on youtube.
JayDean Ludiker in Spokane, WA has some great fiddle books with notation and tab and they have cd's so you can here the music or play along

Where are you located? I would try to reach out to local Bluegrass, Old Time or Folk groups in your area. They would have some insight to what is happening in your area. Our local Bluegrass group offers assistance with lessons for kids as well. Check to see if there are any local festivals they often have workshops or jams. Get the kids to jams so they can play with others, it will help a lot and other jammers are usually very supportive and helpful of kids.
Lastly, our state Washington Old Time Fiddlers Assoication (should be one in most states) has a fiddle camp. They teach beginner to advanced in guitar, fiddle, mandolin, banjo classes. It is crazy but they charge $100 for adults and $50 for kids for the week, The kids play 2 1/2 hours morning and afternoon and then they run around and play games until you round them up and toss them in bed. They have a great time and learn a lot and have fun.
Lots of options especially with the internet but you just need to get plugged in. Good luck the gift of music is a great thing.

[yankees1]

Do your children want to be musical? If their interests lie in other directions let them follow them. And if they want to be musical let it be on an instrument of their choosing. If they're to be successful by any measure they'll need to practice and will be far more inclined to practice an instrument of their choosing rather than yours.

Hope this didn't sound too blunt

Great advice !!!!!!!!!!! Been there done that !!

[Dave Sheets]

Learning fiddle without any teaching is really tough, as great an instrument as it is. Banjo or mandolin are better suited to the DIY approach. Fiddle has a slow start to the learning curve. That said, try to figure out how to let your child try or hold the instruments, or see someone play one up close to say what really draws them in, and go with that one.

I knew a really great elementary school band teacher. He had this method of testing what tones appealed to kids, and then steered them toward instruments that they prefered on his tests. It seemed to work out really well, but then again, he was a really good teacher, so maybe the testing wasn't a real big deal.

[JEStanek]

I think it's great to expose kids to a variety of hobbies and expressive pursuits but, I don't believe you'll have much success if you want them to take hold of one that's your idea and not theirs. I would think hard about investing in private lessons for a new instrument for a kid about to head off to college as well. They may have their plate really full with classes and new friends and freedom and not get the most out of the lessons. If they are serious, go for it. Any hesitation, save that for the summer or rethink it. This advice is worth what you paid for it.

Jamie

[kahlanne]

Yes, all have expressed interest and I didn't find your advice too blunt at all. We believe in letting our children try as much as possible but it has primarily been sports as myself and my husband are not musical in any way. Currently our kids are active in football, soccer, judo, and dance. Things they attempted but didn't stick were basketball, baseball, acting, and modeling. Our older three took piano for a few years but never loved it so once they stopped we moved away from musical instruments. My oldest never wanted to play piano but wanted to play other instruments but dh thought piano would be better and we knew a teacher. She was excellent but the love never grew. Anyway, it wasn't until recently that my oldest wanted the guitar and lessons and my teen chose the ukulele. After that my youngest really began asking for music lessons but only the 11 yr old was specific on the instruments she preferred. Long story short, I see your point on pushing them to learn something they don't love is not the best course of action but didn't know if there was an easier choice of the three or four instruments to learn with online instructions. (mandolin, banjo, drums, or fiddle) We cannot afford to spend much monthly on lessons and want to chose wisely.

[kahlanne]

My son that is going to college next year has wanted to play the guitar since early childhood. His dad thought it better to learn piano and we had him take 2 yrs of lessons way back when. He never loved it and he became busy with sports which was more natural to us as parents so we went with that yet his desire to play guitar always popped up from time to time. Last year he was really adamant that he wanted to learn so we purchased a guitar and he was going to learn online but a relative broke the neck of his guitar before he got very far. (long story) It could not be repaired so as a birthday present this year we bought him a new guitar and he has learned some online since he received it but football was his life. Now that football is over, he has been practicing daily. The private lessons are his Christmas gift. He won't attend college til next fall so he has some time to see how serious he is about learning. I won't be upset if he tries it and decides its not for him but if he is as committed as he was with football, practicing/working out min. of 4 hours on non-game days year round, he should excel. Regardless I want to give him the opportunity before he moves out, becomes an adult and feels he has too many financial and time constraints to do for himself like so many of us parents feel.

[Br1ck]

If you ever decide to buy a mandolin, either get one from one of our online sponsors or expect to pay upwards of $50 for a setup. The worst you can do is subject your child to a poorly set up mandolin.

[Randi Gormley]

I'm assuming you aren't connected with a public (or private) school music program since that's usually how kids first get exposed to music and instruments if their parents aren't musicians or musically inclined. So I'll give you my small bit of experience with kids, instruments and interest. As has been said, letting a kid choose the instrument they want to play is probably your best bet, especially if some of them tried piano and didn't continue on. I'm sure you realize that even expressing an interest is no guarantee they'll stick with music and that's fine too.

My husband and I are both amateur musicians (we belong to a community band) and have been from the time we were elementary school kids (we're decidedly NOT athletic in our family and our kids very quickly got bored with whatever athletics they tried except for karate; i now have 2 second-degree black belts and a brown belt (she went to college before getting her black belt)). That being said, all 3 of our kids were introduced to music young; one of them ran into issues and stopped lessons (violin) at the end of middle school, one of then (trumpet) made it to sophomore year in high school and the third remains a musician today. So it's a tossup. The musician always wanted to play the harp but there was no school program for harp so she became a percussionist. By the time she graduated from high school, she could play pretty much any of the percussion instruments available -- marimba, triangle, cymbals, tympani and, of course, various voices of drums. she's never been a big fan of drum kits but she can use one if she wants. HOWEVER, since harp remained something she wanted to learn, we gave her harp lessons (and rented a harp) beginning when she was 16. We were able to work with a local teacher on paying for lessons and renting a harp. She played harp two years of high school and all four years of college and is saving up for a harp of her own. So a child who wants to play will eventually drift into their preferred instrument on their own if you give them the option. At least that's been my experience. And if a child isn't all that interested, then they won't want to continue. My two older children occasionally play their old instruments, but so far it hasn't been a huge motivator for them. The trumpet player had originally wanted to play sax, so giving up the trumpet wasn't that big a thing for her. We bought her a dulcimer and she enjoys playing on that, but has never taken it very far.

As for mandolin, fiddle or banjo, they have their learning curves. with a fiddle/violin, there are 1/2 size, 3/4 size and full size to accommodate the size of the learner, so there's that. If it's possible to let your 11-year-old hold any of the three, i'd let them choose what feels better or sounds better to them. it may not stick, but at least they feel in some control over their musicianship.

My input and worth what you paid for it!

[allenhopkins]

1. If the daughter wants to play fiddle, mandolin or banjo, try one of those. All of them are accessible at fairly reasonable cost (you can find approximately a zillion threads here on "best choice for a first mandolin"), and if you have a definite expressed interest, better to go with that. You already have some experience with a child who expressed interest in one instrument, was given lessons on another instrument, and didn't continue to play piano because he really wanted to play guitar.

2. On the other hand, those piano lessons weren't wasted; piano is one of the best instruments for acquiring the basics of music theory, chord construction, melody/rhythm interaction, etc. What you learn on one instrument may help you with another -- worked for me, anyway.

3. Both my kids played in their school bands, and have retained a strong interest in music, though they've moved from woodwinds and brass to guitar and bass. I gave each of my grandkids a ukulele (in one case, a uke-banjo), and I'm hoping they continue to play as they grow older. Neither of my kids, though, appears to share my central interest in playing and performing, and that's OK too.

4. Kids who get a chance to explore their various interests, be it sports, music, acting, writing, mechanics, woodworking, riding, volunteer work, student government, computer programming, or whatever, are at their best when families allow them to try and fail and struggle and succeed as best they can. We all know what's best for our children, or think we do, but there's no substitute for a young person finding his/her passion in life -- and, we hope, being able to make it into either a career, or a life-long avocation.

Good luck!

[William Smith]

You can't push a kid, I won't my 2 that are 1 and 5 but I hope they follow the family tradition, I've tried to get my 5 year old little girl interested in playing but for now she's content with listening/dancing while I play, my 1 year old boy I hope has it in him as he loves mandolin already, its in their blood so to speak with a few pro pickers in the family, it all started back as I know anyway with my great gramps as a drummer in the clubs/speakeasies in the 20's.

[DHopkins]

If they do try to take up music as a major part of their lives, make sure they get real jobs, too.

[Stacey Morris]

Hi Kahlanne.

Neither of our kids (now grown) were interested in team sports, but both played instruments in junior and high school band. One went on to play through college. My advice is to go ahead and get your 11 year old a mandolin (don't try to push her in a direction she doesn't want to go) and let her try it. There is enough online lesson material available to get her started. One of the best mandolin players around (Sierra Hull) started when she was younger than your daughter, and you have to hear her play to believe how good she is. She is in her twenties now, I believe. Like a lot of kids, your daughter may lose interest in a little while but we have to let them try different things to see what clicks. Good luck, and please let us know how it goes.

[MontanaMatt]

My parents didn't let me start violin lessons until I was 11. I started asking when I was 6. I still hold a little resentment for that delay and I'm 44. I was forced to play trumpet, as we owned a trumpet, and my brothers played. Hated it and it gave me headaches.
They finally relented to my precocious persistent, and I took to it like a duck to water. They always made it known how much it cost, and guilt-tripped me constantly, though unnecessary, as I worked very hard.(plus they had more than enough money)
My first year teaching lessons and playing professionally, I made more money than the cost of 11 years of weekly private lessons. it is now a trade that supports my own family. My folks now love to come hear my performances.
Hopefully this anecdote will help you encourage your kid to follow their desires.
P.s. I wish I had been introduced to mandolin when I was a kid, I didn't find it till my late 20's.
P.p.s. I, nor my brothers, never made a cent off baseball, football, soccer, track, or scouts, but that got the majority of my parents efforts and support. The Scout skills and ethics do get used frequently.

[Jim Garber]

I agree wholeheartedly to let your kids find their own music or any creative endeavor. It sounds like your 11 year old knows exactly what she wants. One question: does she have friends who play any of those instruments she is interested in or play music she likes? That would be ideal because that way she would have some one of her own age to play with. I understand your not made of money but it might also be worthwhile, if possible, to at least have her take a few lessons with a competent teacher in the genre she likes. Otherwise, depending on her skill level it might be to frustrating to learn the rudiments with no prior help from free onine videos.

[Bill Clements]

I have been in Music Education Sales for over 35 years, and highly recommend as others have to let your 11 year old follow the path she has interest in - provided she understands that if you provide an instrument there must be a commitment on her part. The quickest way to failure is to force an instrument on a kid he/she dislikes.
If school music is not an interest or option, Jim Garber’s suggestion of pairing your child with another for support coupled with a competent teacher is terrific. Great topic with advice from fine people.
Welcome to the Cafe, Kahlanne!

[JRG]

If you're lucky enough to live in the Southeast get the kids involved in the Junior Appalachian Musicians program. They operate mostly inside the school system, third thru ninth grades, and provide both instruments and teaching/mentoring. Fantastic opportunity for kids to try guitar, fiddle, banjo, mandolin and bass. Great advice from the other members by the way.

[Mark Wilson]

Expose them to as many live performances as you can and let their imagination chose. I was made to take piano lessons as a 10yo with no exposure to what a piano might sound like in the right hands. I never bought into it

[Seter]

I'd vote for mandolin. Stylistically more versatile than banjo, easier to learn and less expensive than violin. The mandolin skills learned will be useful for any additional stringed instruments she may want to learn down the road.

[EdHanrahan]

Gonna get REAL personal & self-indulgent for a few minutes ...

In the spirit of many of the posts above, and having previously piled on about respecting the kids' individual interests, let me give a brief(?) personal resume:

- From ages 7 to 9 or so, my parents desperately wanted me to take piano lessons, which I desperately and successfully resisted.
- Senior year in high school, I desperately wanted to play guitar, and Santa Clause obliged with a low-level Kay (still have it) plus a series of Mel Bay instruction books mostly on reading notation, but what did I know? I devoured them regardless.
- HEY, IT WORKED!! My first actual girlfriend was super-impressed that I could read music, and I was super-impressed that she could play chords, accompanying 2 of her best buds' singing. Golly-gee, a match made in ....
- Two years later ('66 & so): College rock band. What's now considered the cream of the '60s: Beatles, Stones, Byrds, Beach Boys, Animals, Kinks, etc. (Hey, ALL bands did covers then). Add some '50s doo-wop. Great justification for that '62 Fender Jazzmaster, at a costly $160!
- After college, a few other bands, but that turned into a lot of helping high school kids get their act together.
- Eventually, music trailed off o/t the occasional jam session w/ friends, and rock band reunions. Concentrated mostly on business and sports: life-long white-water kayaker and, later, skier!
- Summer '91: A hernia-type operation enforced no sports for the summer. Music resurgence (helped by a now-decent salary) led to my first GOOD acoustic guitar, a 20-year-old Martin. (Nevermind Martin's '70s reputation; folks are still bowled over by it. And I thought it was temporary until I could find a cheapish HD-28!)
- Along the way, added a mandolin, uke, bass guitars, Shaolin flute, a Martin tiple, keyboard, but (hmmm...) never a banjo!
- December '07: Shattered my right upper arm, humerus, putting me out of driving for 4 months, work for 6 months, and acoustic guitar for 18 months. But DANG - This mandolin fits my restricted reach PERFECTLY (after only 6 weeks), so I dove into it.
- Finally admitted that Music Theory For Dummies was maybe a good idea. With a borrowed 1st-gen Casio yard-sale-special keyboard ($1) played left-hand-only: Whoa! All of those diverse bits & pieces (or, most of 'em) finally came together.
- Got into a regular monthly acoustic jam session of mostly classic rock. BIG personal highlights were:
A) when I got good enough on mandolin to leave the guitar at home, and then,
B) when I regained enough arm use to leave the mandolin at home.
- 2015: Guess who signed up for actual piano lessons? Only 55 or so years later.
- 2016: Joined the local mandolin orchestra. Started off playing second mandolin, but they convinced me that a 2nd guitar was more needed than a 23rd mandolin.
And THAT has lead to more contacts than my wife can count. So today I play mandolin, guitar, and/or bass guitar in:
- the Bloomfield (NJ) Mandolin Orchestra;
- a side-shoot mostly Italian music quintet; 2 mandolins, guitar, flute, bass guitar;
- a Thursday-afternoon group at the local library that plays old Italian plus '30s-to-'50s standards, jazz, & show tunes (audience is mostly wheelchair-bound folks bused in from local assisted-care facilities);
- weekly bluegrass jams, mostly in the Summer when the orchestra is off;
- still the monthly acoustic rock jam (if I'm free!) and,
- occasional rock band reunions, now that we're spread around the East coast!

Did I mention that, o/t those resisted piano lessons, I come from a totally non-musical family?

Sorry for the self-indulgence here, but I think it gives a hint of where this music thing can go for, ya know, the OP's kids, if they're so inclined and/or lucky. Whoops, gotta go practice!

[SincereCorgi]

I agree with Alan about piano- even if they don't stick with it, lessons aren't wasted. You learn to count and read and the basics of harmony and, as a bonus, single-note instruments feel easy after piano. It's also *easy* for a kid- you press a button and a pretty sound comes out, no worry about sore fingertips and cat-murder violin sounds.

[catmandu2]

Otoh, the piano can be as remote a musical instrument antithetical to music-making as can be - was for me anyway. When I asked for piano lessons at about age 10 it's the one instrument I couldn't make music on; i needed more tactile feedback. Strings in a cabinet separated from me by an invisible mechanism of levers and pins...was like playing a piece of, well, living room furniture.

Even after a lifetime of dabbling, tune-playing, and occasional study, I still haven't bonded tremendously with a piano keyboard. I do play a bit of piano accordian (but mostly buttons) but that is helped greatly by a bellows which is very intimate. (I would however like a small kybd instrument like a harpsichord).

Also, I wasn't into the kind of music the piano makes when I was a kid. It was quite a bit later that I discovered prof. Longhair.

[bobby bill]

You want your 11 year-old to play mandolin (yes, you do) and you want it to be her decision.

If your 11 year-old was a boy, I advise you to tell him that he cannot play one, they are extremely dangerous, and will probably turn him into a juvenile delinquent if not permanently blind him. Then I'd leave a mandolin on the kitchen table and get out of the house for the weekend.

Since your 11 year-old is a girl, I don't have much advice. As many have stated here, there are a ton of books and YouTubes that can get her started without having one-on-one lessons if that is impractical right now.