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Thread: Double Stop Rules of Thumb

  1. #26
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Stop Rules of Thumb

    Quote Originally Posted by bratsche View Post
    The very best rule of thumb for double stops is:





    ....don't use it!

    ....er.... your thumb, that is.

    (*ducking*) ... sorry! That one was a joke....

    bratsche
    In fact, 200x is a triple stop I often do on the OM, with my thumb on the G course. It's legal.
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

  2. #27
    MandolaViola bratsche's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Stop Rules of Thumb

    Quote Originally Posted by Bertram Henze View Post
    In fact, 200x is a triple stop I often do on the OM, with my thumb on the G course. It's legal.
    Show-off! Gee, just rain on my parade, why don't you?

    (I'm just envious of you big-handed folks, I guess. Get tired of reading "Don't put your thumb on the back of the neck like a guitar player...." Well, if my thumb's too danged short to stick over the top of the neck when playing in certain positions, where the heck do you think I'm going to put it, huh, smartypants?)

    Just funnin' with you, Bertram, nothing personal - please don't mind me a bit. Actually, I am in quite a happy mood today!

    bratsche
    "There are two refuges from the miseries of life: music and cats." - Albert Schweitzer

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  3. #28
    Registered User Sherry Cadenhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Stop Rules of Thumb

    Quote Originally Posted by HonketyHank View Post
    Good reading here - Pickloser's Guide to Double Stops:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Double Stops Guide.pdf 
Views:	167 
Size:	322.4 KB 
ID:	162755

    If the thumbnail shows up as just a big black rectangle, that's normal. Just click it to download it.
    38 pages here! I printed the first 10. That should be a good start.

  4. #29
    Registered User Sherry Cadenhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Stop Rules of Thumb

    [QUOTE=Mark Gunter;1615676]Hi Sherry. If you mean, learning three new tunes from scratch every week, with only 1 hour practice time each day, for me that would be too ambitious. Maybe not so for you, and variety is the spice of life.

    (Sorry about the messed up quote.)

    Yes, Mark, I do mean 3 new tunes each week. Keep in mind I'm not memorizing anything - just reading standard notation and playing the chords when other musicians take a break. Being a newbie, I can't just pick up a piece of music and play it flawlessly, and some chords are a struggle, so I play each piece 2 or 3 times as I practice each day. I find as I'm getting more comfortable performing at the jam sessions, my playing is getting better. I should mention these are not difficult tunes. They're primarily from the Mel Bay Parking Lot Picker's Songbook. I'd love to be able to add double stops here and there to some of these tunes. If Henry will post a PDF for me (hint, hint), I might show you what I've done with Rocky Top - to see what you guys think about the double stops I've added.

  5. #30
    Orrig Onion HonketyHank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Stop Rules of Thumb

    I would post your pdf (if I had it) but I'm gonna make you do it.

    When you start your "Quick Reply" to the thread, click the button, down at the lower right that says "Go Advanced".

    Good. Now scroll down to the "Your Message" window and type whatever text you want.

    Now click the button up on the top row of buttons (in the Your Message window) that looks like a paper clip (just right of the smiley face button).

    A dialog window opens. Near the top of the window, on the right side is a button "Add Files". Click it. Now a little bitty window opens with a button called "browse".

    Click the "browse" button and navigate to whereever you have your pdf on your hard drive. Click the file, then the "Open" button. Now the little bitty window will have your file that you selected listed. Click the "upload" button. That sends your file to the mandolincafe server. It will appear in your list of uploaded files in the upper half of the dialog window. It will also appear int the list of attachments currently selected (in the lower half of the dialog window).

    Almost done.

    Move that dialog window if necessary and go back to the "Your Message" window and make sure your cursor is where you want the attachment thumbnail to appear in your message. Now go back to the attachment dialog window and click the button "Insert Inline (1)".
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	BringATorch.pdf 
Views:	14 
Size:	48.6 KB 
ID:	162803 test pdf here (Not Sherryc's pdf)
    Now click the Done button in the dialog window and it will go away, leaving you in the Your Message window. You will have a piece of html text code pasted where your cursor was which will make your attachment thumbhail appear at that point in your text.

    Finish whatever text you want. Then go down to just below the Your Message window and click the Preview Post button. If the post looks OK (except for the fact that pdf thumbnails are all totally black rectangles on my computer and maybe yours too), scroll down past the Your Message window and click the Submit Reply button.

    You might want to cut and paste all this into a text file or word document and then print it out. Kind of intricate and arcane, but deep down it all makes sense (if you are a computer nerd like me).
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  6. #31
    Registered User Sherry Cadenhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Stop Rules of Thumb

    You're so mean! ��

    OK. I'll try it. ☺

  7. #32
    Registered User Sherry Cadenhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Stop Rules of Thumb

    If posting the PDF is a success, this is Rocky Top, with my double stops added. I did this prior to submitting my question to the group; therefore, I may take a whole different approach once I've read through everything I've printed from this thread.

    I'm wondering if I may have added too many double stops to this piece. You'll see that everything is played in first position. I don't need any further complication at this point. You'll also see I've diagrammed 2 variations of an F#m chord. Haven't yet figured out the best option.

    Any and all constructive comments are appreciated.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Rocky Top with Double Stops.pdf 
Views:	61 
Size:	122.2 KB 
ID:	162805

    Henry, is this the same process for a social group posting or are those different? This was so easy!

  8. #33
    Phil Goodson Philphool's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Stop Rules of Thumb

    Nice job. Is there really meant to be a low D in the A doublestop immediately before the F#m chords?
    Phil

    “Sharps/Flats” ≠ “Accidentals”

  9. #34
    Registered User Sherry Cadenhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Stop Rules of Thumb

    Oops! I'd say those Ds should be Es. Thanks, Phil!

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  11. #35
    Registered User Sherry Cadenhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Stop Rules of Thumb

    I'm seeing other errors now that I've read some of Henry's PDF. I should have known better. Anyway, thanks for all who supported me in this thread.

  12. #36
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Stop Rules of Thumb

    Quote Originally Posted by bratsche View Post
    Actually, I am in quite a happy mood today!
    Remember how you achieved that and do it more often.
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

  13. #37
    Stop the chop!
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    Default Re: Double Stop Rules of Thumb

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherryc View Post
    Is there a rule of thumb for adding double stops to a piece of simply written music, like quarter and longer notes only, for example? Also, is it unreasonable to play in first position only? Any other advice?

    Using doublestops extensively will inevitably force you out of first position. Just one example: I play the Missouri Waltz as part of a medley (Tennessee Waltz in F, Missouri in D, Kentucky Waltz in Eb), and I use double stops on bars 1-8 and 17-24, like this:

    This passage is certainly best playedClick image for larger version. 

Name:	missouri017.jpg 
Views:	41 
Size:	1.07 MB 
ID:	163122 on the two inner courses all the way.

  14. #38
    Registered User Bunnyf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Stop Rules of Thumb

    Quote Originally Posted by HonketyHank View Post
    Good reading here - Pickloser's Guide to Double Stops:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Double Stops Guide.pdf 
Views:	167 
Size:	322.4 KB 
ID:	162755

    If the thumbnail shows up as just a big black rectangle, that's normal. Just click it to download it.
    Oh my gosh, what a helpful resource! As a newbie, this is a super helpful way to navigate the mando fretboard. Thank you!

  15. #39
    Registered User Sherry Cadenhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Stop Rules of Thumb

    Bunny, I printed that PDF also. Before committing too much time to it, check out the Pete Martin video Mark Gunter posted. Pete's 90+ page materials cost $10 but are well worth it.

  16. #40
    Registered User Bunnyf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Stop Rules of Thumb

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherryc View Post
    Bunny, I printed that PDF also. Before committing too much time to it, check out the Pete Martin video Mark Gunter posted. Pete's 90+ page materials cost $10 but are well worth it.
    Thank you. I will check it out. I randomly fell upon Pete Martin's video on using your pinkie and thought they were excellent.

  17. #41
    Registered User Sherry Cadenhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Stop Rules of Thumb

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanzy View Post
    Pics might help too;it doesn’t matter where on the fretboard you are, these relationships hold for all instruments tuned like a violin, viola, cello etc. Just good for not getting lost or when you want to shift up or down an octave / harmonise with the root note of the current chord

    Octaves
    2x6 Click image for larger version. 

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    4x4 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	3D885931-F5F1-4F35-81F7-BB04AFCA186C.jpeg 
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ID:	162752
    3x3 Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	162753
    Root 3rd & 5th
    Click image for larger version. 

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    With double stopping I drop them in where I want to make more of a phrase or highlight some aspect of the tone, or just because with some notes you can make a scrunchy harmony.
    Eoin, I don't understand the pics. If you explain the first one, maybe I can figure out the rest.

    Thanks.

    Sherry

  18. #42
    Unfamous String Buster Beanzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Stop Rules of Thumb

    Ok. In the pics with the red blobs they show the relative positions of notes an octave apart.
    It doesn’t matter where you are on the fretboard, there’ll be an octave note that many frets over and up or down.
    In the first 2x6 one I show it on the G & D courses, but you could shift it over one or two courses if that’s where the note you’re interested in lies.
    Those first three pics give you a framework for finding a note the next octave up or down.

    The interesting bit is when you use the last one in conjunction with the octaves.
    Lets say you have a note you want to build a double or triple stop around. That would be the ‘root’ in the pattern.
    The pattern shown can be shuffled anywhere on the fretboard depending on which note you want to work on.
    You’ll always find a 5th next course up and you’ll always find a 3rd on the course lower one fret back.
    That gets you a nice tight pattern that puts simple double-stop options under your fingertips.

    Now rather than just thinking of the octave notes as being for the ‘root’ note, or note your interested in, you can apply it to the others too. So you’ll find another 3rd 2x6 up from the original one & similarly for the 5th etc. The same goes for the other octave patterns (3x3 & 4x4)
    The handy part is you don’t even need to know the note names, just their relationships to the note you want to double-stop or build into a chord. You also don’t need to worry too much about where you are on the fretboard, you can play double-stops or chords anywhere the melody takes you. Or jump the whole lot up an octave to make a solo stand out better, because you always know where to start an octave up.

    Once you have the basic relationships for 3rd & 5th lodged, you’ll find the logic can then be expanded to give you 6ths, 4ths or flatted 7ths without too much effort, because they’re just a couple of frets up or back from the 3,5 or octave.
    After a bit you’ll be able to build lots of interesting double-stops or chords on the fly, without having to learn loads of individual patterns and names, just by knowing where the notes you need should be relative to wherever you find yourself with the melody. The main thing is to start simply by focussing on that root,3rd & 5th pattern with the octaves; that’s your main building framework.
    Last edited by Beanzy; Dec-25-2017 at 2:39am.
    Eoin



    "Forget that anyone is listening to you and always listen to yourself" - Fryderyk Chopin

  19. #43
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Stop Rules of Thumb

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherry Cadenhead View Post
    Eoin, I don't understand the pics. If you explain the first one, maybe I can figure out the rest.

    Thanks.

    Sherry
    You can see some of those octave doublestops in this video.
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

  20. #44
    Registered User Sherry Cadenhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Stop Rules of Thumb

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanzy View Post
    Ok. In the pics with the red blobs they show the relative positions of notes an octave apart.
    It doesn’t matter where you are on the fretboard, there’ll be an octave note that many frets over and up or down.
    In the first 2x6 one I show it on the G & D courses, but you could shift it over one or two courses if that’s where the note you’re interested in lies.
    Those first three pics give you a framework for finding a note the next octave up or down.

    The interesting bit is when you use the last one in conjunction with the octaves.
    Lets say you have a note you want to build a double or triple stop around. That would be the ‘root’ in the pattern.
    The pattern shown can be shuffled anywhere on the fretboard depending on which note you want to work on.
    You’ll always find a 5th next course up and you’ll always find a 3rd on the course lower one fret back.
    That gets you a nice tight pattern that puts simple double-stop options under your fingertips.

    Now rather than just thinking of the octave notes as being for the ‘root’ note, or note your interested in, you can apply it to the others too. So you’ll find another 3rd 2x6 up from the original one & similarly for the 5th etc. The same goes for the other octave patterns (3x3 & 4x4)
    The handy part is you don’t even need to know the note names, just their relationships to the note you want to double-stop or build into a chord. You also don’t need to worry too much about where you are on the fretboard, you can play double-stops or chords anywhere the melody takes you. Or jump the whole lot up an octave to make a solo stand out better, because you always know where to start an octave up.

    Once you have the basic relationships for 3rd & 5th lodged, you’ll find the logic can then be expanded to give you 6ths, 4ths or flatted 7ths without too much effort, because they’re just a couple of frets up or back from the 3,5 or octave.
    After a bit you’ll be able to build lots of interesting double-stops or chords on the fly, without having to learn loads of individual patterns and names, just by knowing where the notes you need should be relative to wherever you find yourself with the melody. The main thing is to start simply by focussing on that root,3rd & 5th pattern with the octaves; that’s your main building framework.
    Eoin, I actually understand this! I plan to work with it some, then watch Bertram's video again. Thank you so much!

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