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Thread: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

  1. #26
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKOS View Post
    Nice playing, David! BTW you can embed soundcloud files to play here (you just have to click the Go Advanced button then click the Soundcloud icon to the far right bottom row and paste the URL into the code:

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  3. #27
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Nice playing, David! BTW you can embed soundcloud files to play here (you just have to click the Go Advanced button then click the Soundcloud icon to the far right bottom row and paste the URL into the code:
    I was wondering how to do that, thank you!

  4. #28
    Registered User smokinop's Avatar
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    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    I appreciate everyone's input. I'm very much like Mark in trying to wrap my head around this stuff, especially the chords. I'm really enjoying this thread.

    Kevin

  5. #29
    Mandolin Friendly Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    Well, here goes nothin'

    After speaking with Pete today, I decided to go ahead and try my hand at this improv. One of the beauties of being new to something is that there's no great shame if you suck at it!

    I decided to do it in one take, and just stick with the first take. I could mess around with it, and 'fix' it up a little, but no, here it is, clams and all. I couldn't get through the first head without a couple of pretty bad clams. The choruses are straight improv, I practiced a few times since the tune was published by noodling around with scales. Then - when the final head rolls around, I am the most embarrassed. I could not remember the melody! I finally got it back on track somewhat after the B part.

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  7. #30
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gunter View Post

    I decided to do it in one take, and just stick with the first take. I could mess around with it, and 'fix' it up a little, but no, here it is, clams and all. I couldn't get through the first head without a couple of pretty bad clams.
    Thanks!

    Welcome to reality in jazz! I prefer sometimes to hear what you had in mind without "corrections".

    Nice ideas, feel, keep at it! I liked a lot of your motifs and the way you used them.

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  9. #31
    Mandolin Friendly Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKOS View Post
    Thanks!

    Welcome to reality in jazz! I prefer sometimes to hear what you had in mind without "corrections".

    Nice ideas, feel, keep at it! I liked a lot of your motifs and the way you used them.
    Thanks David, I don't have any motifs, LOL I was searching for some motifs. That was fun. Sort of like playing live on a tune you're not that familiar with - only without the people staring at you.
    Technique, theory and fun, fun, fun. I love playing, studying and sharing MUSIC.
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  11. #32
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    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gunter View Post
    Thanks David, I don't have any motifs, LOL I was searching for some motifs. That was fun. Sort of like playing live on a tune you're not that familiar with - only without the people staring at you.
    You definitely found a few good ones.

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  13. #33

    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    ..... said to indicate that one is about to start something difficult or exciting - Here goes!



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  15. #34
    Mandolin Friendly Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    That's cool, des! Congrats for jumping into new waters. I'm thinking you probably had a lot of fun doing this.
    Technique, theory and fun, fun, fun. I love playing, studying and sharing MUSIC.
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  17. #35
    Registered User Pete Martin's Avatar
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    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    Nice Mark and Des! Welcome to the Jazz improv world. It is huge fun
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  19. #36
    Registered User Pete Martin's Avatar
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    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    Here is Marmaduke, a contrafact of Honeysuckle Rose by Charlie Parker. A contrafact is a new melody written to the chord changes of a previous tune.



    Here is the music notation for Marmaduke. There is no melody for the B part, but what is written is Parkers improv on the B part changes (changes is jazz slang for chord changes).
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Marmaduke .png 
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    There are 3 very common Bebop things I see right away in Birds A part:

    Measure 3) the Bb, D, F, A, G lick, basically a Gm9 arpeggio starting on the b3 (Bb) and dropping to the 5th (D) then ascending by diatonic thirds (D, F, A).

    Measure 4) the rhythmic figure of 2 sixteenth notes falling on the "and beat of one" in a measure.

    Measure 5) the Db note against a C7 chord. This is the flatted ninth and is used as color on a dominant seventh chord.

    I hear ALL of these used very often in improvised solos in mid 40s on Jazz.
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  21. #37

    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    https://soundcloud.com/david-martin-...uckle-rose-ddm

    Wow, really nice playing in previous posts. My humble offering. Slightly slower, only 3 times through.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    <><><>><<><><>
    Start slow, fade early

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  23. #38
    Mandolin Friendly Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    Embedding David's file here



    BTW, if anyone uses soundcloud and would prefer to embed their file here instead of sending us to the soundcloud site, Jim Garber has noted in post #26 above how to do that by using the Advanced post feature.

    There is another method that I use directly from the Quick Reply screen, and that is to type the soundcloud tags, pasting the soundcloud links between the tags. The soundcloud tags are typed like this:

    Name:  soundcloud.jpg
Views: 266
Size:  17.8 KB
    Last edited by Mark Gunter; Dec-10-2017 at 3:20pm.
    Technique, theory and fun, fun, fun. I love playing, studying and sharing MUSIC.
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  25. #39
    Registered User Mark Seale's Avatar
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    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    Thanks for the early submissions. Any tricks to getting a decent recording with the backing tracks playing? Are you loading the backing track to garageband or just recording the sound from the computer speakers?

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  27. #40
    Mandolin Friendly Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    That was very pretty, Martin, a nice, relaxed feel to it and I love your tremolo work.

    @Mark - I'm sure people do it differently. I loaded the mp3 track into Ableton Live 9 Lite which is what I've been learning to use for recording, and just went with the first take clams and all. I used a wee bit of compression and possibly a wee bit of reverb on the mandolin, don't remember.
    Technique, theory and fun, fun, fun. I love playing, studying and sharing MUSIC.
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  29. #41

    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Seale View Post
    Thanks for the early submissions. Any tricks to getting a decent recording with the backing tracks playing? Are you loading the backing track to garageband or just recording the sound from the computer speakers?
    I load tracks into Audacity from BIAB. (Windows) I use a Rode USB mic plugged into the computer.
    <><><>><<><><>
    Start slow, fade early

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  31. #42
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Seale View Post
    Thanks for the early submissions. Any tricks to getting a decent recording with the backing tracks playing? Are you loading the backing track to garageband or just recording the sound from the computer speakers?
    Like the other posters, I load the backing track into a DAWS, Cubase in my case, and then add the new track. A little compression, reverb, EQ, mixdown, and there you have it.

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  33. #43

    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    What does compression do? Is it necessary? I haven't used it yet. Should I?

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  35. #44
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    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by JL277z View Post
    What does compression do? Is it necessary? I haven't used it yet. Should I?
    It's not strictly necessary, but a bit of properly used compression will make your recordings sound much more professional.

    https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials...ion--audio-953

    "Compression is the process of lessening the dynamic range between the loudest and quietest parts of an audio signal. This is done by boosting the quieter signals and attenuating the louder signals."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range_compression

    https://www.soundonsound.com/techniq...sion-made-easy

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  37. #45

    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKOS View Post
    It's not strictly necessary, but a bit of properly used compression will make your recordings sound much more professional.

    https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials...ion--audio-953

    "Compression is the process of lessening the dynamic range between the loudest and quietest parts of an audio signal. This is done by boosting the quieter signals and attenuating the louder signals."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range_compression

    https://www.soundonsound.com/techniq...sion-made-easy
    Thanks David. I didn't know that was possible.

    I just assumed that it was up to the player to play at a consistent volume.

    I know I've thrown out many of my own (and others') amateur recordings over the years, because of areas that were too loud vs other areas that were not loud enough. I assumed they were not salvageable.

    But, I think I like the preemptive approach better, isn't that part of playing well, to strive for a more uniform volume while playing? I resist the idea of tinkering with selective parts of the music *after* it's recorded, it doesn't seem 'right' somehow. I will go as far as multi-tracking and turning down the treble knob (on the entire track) to cut some of the harshness from cheap condenser mics or shrill piezo pickups, and (sometimes) adding my beloved reverb (well actually the reverb is live through the amp, it's not added later) but that's where I draw the line, so far, anyway. I'm probably just ridiculously old-fashioned...

    Maybe I can get used to the idea if I can convince myself that compression is not a correction of the person who's playing, but rather a correction of the recording *equipment*...

    Anyway, thank you for the reply and the links, I will read up on that, I clearly have much to learn.

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  39. #46
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by JL277z View Post
    But, I think I like the preemptive approach better, isn't that part of playing well, to strive for a more uniform volume while playing? I resist the idea of tinkering with selective parts of the music *after* it's recorded, it doesn't seem 'right' somehow.

    .....
    Maybe I can get used to the idea if I can convince myself that compression is not a correction of the person who's playing, but rather a correction of the recording *equipment*...
    I agree about first playing with a consistent even tone and control of dynamics.

    But compression is not a "correction" per se, but rather a tool to make audio signals "fit" better in a mix. There's no guilt in using it!

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  41. #47
    Mandolin Friendly Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    Crutches: I had to use a crutch to get through the song, what I did was make a scratch vocal that called out changes like this:

    "Chorus, A ... A ... B ... A ... A1 ..." and at the end of chorus 3, simply "Head."

    I had to do this in order to keep track without counting all the changes so I could be free to improvise. I know that this would not work for a live situation, you'd have to keep track of where you are and listen closely for the changes, but this crutch made it possible for me to contribute something. This is just a tip for other newbies who may feel the need to "cheat" a little.
    Technique, theory and fun, fun, fun. I love playing, studying and sharing MUSIC.
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  42. #48
    Registered User Jairo Ramos Parra's Avatar
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    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by JL277z View Post
    What does compression do? Is it necessary? I haven't used it yet. Should I?
    IMHO, stay away from audio compression...it requires a big learning curve. In acoustic home recordings reverb, eq, mix will be enough. David's recordings sound awesome to me, but maybe he has years of experience. Audio compression has great debate in professional recordings...but that's another story...

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  44. #49
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    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by Jairo Ramos Parra View Post
    IMHO, stay away from audio compression...it requires a big learning curve. In acoustic home recordings reverb, eq, mix will be enough. David's recordings sound awesome to me, but maybe he has years of experience. Audio compression has great debate in professional recordings...but that's another story...
    Jairo, it's not that hard to learn to use a bit of judicious compression. Plus, like you, I'd rather hear the original uncompressed performance than some of the butchered things I've heard where compressors are used as an audio weapon.

    Yes, I do have a history of recording and engineering...but this is something that can be learned. To use compression at the level we want for acoustic mandolin is a far cry from the " big learning curve" stuff used for dance and pop production. It's not that hard to get a good mandolin sound with a little experimentation.

    All we need is a simple compressor such as all DAWS have and to set it - and try to find a preset! - that gently makes the mandolin sound better. A bit of EQ that cuts out low frequencies is another common thing to add to the mix.

    You are correct in that the big issue is getting a clean recording of a good performance. That is the most important part of recording. All the other stuff means nothing without the same things that people have dealt with since the earliest days of recording in any medium.

    A good performance, recorded cleanly.

    Of course today, we have more gear in our basic DAWS than most of the folks we love recorded with in decades past.

    Thank you for your comment on my recordings, too. I'm still learning how to be my own engineer and producer!

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  46. #50
    Registered User Jairo Ramos Parra's Avatar
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    Default Re: December Jazz Tune of the Month: Honeysuckle Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKOS View Post
    Jairo, it's not that hard to learn to use a bit of judicious compression. Plus, like you, I'd rather hear the original uncompressed performance than some of the butchered things I've heard where compressors are used as an audio weapon.

    Yes, I do have a history of recording and engineering...but this is something that can be learned. To use compression at the level we want for acoustic mandolin is a far cry from the " big learning curve" stuff used for dance and pop production. It's not that hard to get a good mandolin sound with a little experimentation.

    All we need is a simple compressor such as all DAWS have and to set it - and try to find a preset! - that gently makes the mandolin sound better. A bit of EQ that cuts out low frequencies is another common thing to add to the mix.

    You are correct in that the big issue is getting a clean recording of a good performance. That is the most important part of recording. All the other stuff means nothing without the same things that people have dealt with since the earliest days of recording in any medium.

    A good performance, recorded cleanly.

    Of course today, we have more gear in our basic DAWS than most of the folks we love recorded with in decades past.

    Thank you for your comment on my recordings, too. I'm still learning how to be my own engineer and producer!
    I had bad experiences with compression, maybe due to a very basic audio equipment. But I really think that compression makes acoustic music(Unplugged) sounds flat and dull, if you donīt master it. In home recordings some reverb, eq, good tracks mixing will do the job for amateur musicians...as you said, a good performance, recorded cleanly...

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