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Thread: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

  1. #1
    Registered User O. Apitius's Avatar
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    Default It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    A deleted post in the builder's section reminded me that it's time for my annual rant on the importance of humidifying your home when your heating system starts to run regularly.
    My preferred and recommended method, assuming you have a forced air system, is to install or have installed a furnace mounted humidifier. This is what I use and I just did the first cleaning and maintenance of the year on it.

    The reasons that I prefer this approach over the others include:
    It runs constantly, consistently and automatically with no need for re-filling or re-charging on an ongoing daily basis. There is nothing to forget.
    The maintenance is minimal. A good inspection and cleaning a few times a year.
    It does the whole house so not only my instrument is comfortable but I am as well. It also saves on heating bills as dry air takes more energy to heat.

    While the humidistat that came with my unit is fairly accurate, I do have a calibrated hygrometer in the room where I keep my instruments to fine tune things. I like to keep the humidity at 40%RH but sometimes when we have a particularly cold spell, with a wind that'll tear the face right off ya', I may set the humidity down to 35% to reduce condensation on my windows then turn it back up to 40% when old man winter regains his powers of reason

    Here is a handy chart that I compiled that shows just how much, in actual terms, that a mandolin top expands and contracts in relation to changes in humidity.



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    Registered User Al Trujillo's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    Appreciate your reminder but I do have one question regarding the furnace mounted humidifier. Does it blow vapor directly into the ventilation system? My concern with adding moisture to the ductwork is whether it increases the chances of creating mold growth in the system.

    Otherwise, humidity (to a point!) and mandolins is a good thing during our dry winters.

  4. #3

    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    This year in the Midwest (United States) we've had severe swings. Meaning a month of above normal precip. followed by a month of no rain. Very strange. October was a no rain month. Good for getting the crops out. No so good for replenishing ground moisture. Here it is 3/4 through November and still not much precip. It done popped the pegs right outa the old fiddle. That's no lie.

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    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    Yes great idea but that still doesn't help your instrument while in its case? I have several cool air/mist humidifiers but still use the little Oasis tube type humidifiers in my instrument cases and have to refill them every few weeks? I should look into what ya said about hooking one up to the heating system then I wouldn't need the room humidifiers? But I still believe in the case humidifiers.

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    Registered User THart's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    I have hot water heat (boiler) so no option for whole house humidification there. What are best options to consider? I've had room humidifiers that are a watery mess & I've heard you really have to watch it with those things you stick inside an instrument. Does a case humidifier work in any case & are they safe?

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    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    A large evaporative humidifier works great if you can't attach one to your furnace. They work way better than those small room humidifiers. They can be a little noisy (a fan is required to induce evaporation) but I just run it during the day when I'm at work and at night. One of them will humidify several rooms, or one level of a smaller house. I have a two story house and I could probably humidify the whole thing with one of these on each level.

    They are easy to maintain. Just replace the filter every few months. It's not really a filter, more of a wick.

    Here is a link to what I'm talking about: https://www.amazon.com/EP9-800-Whole...ive+humidifier

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    Front Porch & Sweet Tea NursingDaBlues's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrasser78 View Post
    Yes great idea but that still doesn't help your instrument while in its case? I have several cool air/mist humidifiers but still use the little Oasis tube type humidifiers in my instrument cases and have to refill them every few weeks? I should look into what ya said about hooking one up to the heating system then I wouldn't need the room humidifiers? But I still believe in the case humidifiers.
    Humidity in its basic sense is air that contains water molecules. Air (like any fluid) tries to seek equilibrium; that is, air with water molecules will try to balance out an area with less water molecules. Sort of like pouring an ounce of salt water into a glass of tap water, the salt water will gradually spread throughout the glass and turn all of the water salty – although not as concentrated. Humidified air does the same thing and will enter into all areas that have an air pocket – closets, blankets, curtains, dresser drawers, and even instrument cases. I don’t believe that there is an instrument case that is perfectly sealed. So humidity will transfer from humidified air into the case. Further the transfer of humidity is very rapid. If you open and immediately close a case in a humidified room, the case and instrument will receive some humidity. So, your instruments (as well as the case) will be humidified if left in a humidified room.

    However, you can over-humidify an instrument. I don’t know where the cut-off point is, but wood will continue to soak up water molecules long past its ideal moisture content.

    With room misters combined with in-case humidifiers you may be over-humidifying your instruments. I would suggest that you invest in a humidor hygrometer that can be purchased in cigar/pipe tobacco stores. They’re priced around $25, although I’m sure you can find some cheaper. It will serve you well to check the humidity in your cases.

    During Colorado winters, folks have told me that they have to fill their in-case humidifiers at least weekly. Because you mentioned that you have to “refill them every few weeks” may indicate over humidifying.

    This is a personal observation, but to me, misters aren’t as efficient as evaporative humidifiers. So your instruments may be safe from over-humidification just because of that.

    Regardless, if you keep your instruments in their case, I would try to keep the in-case humidity around 40% to 45%.


    NFI: Before we moved into a house with whole-house humidification as part of the central air/heat system, I used an Aircare MA0800 evaporative humidifier that was very efficient and worked well with all of my instruments. BTW all of my instruments are kept in-case.
    https://www.amazon.com/MA0800-Whole-...er+evaporative

    (I know some may say that $80 is a lot for a room humidifier; however if you have to humidify four instruments with a typical in-case humidifier, then you've pretty much paid for a room version.)
    Last edited by NursingDaBlues; Nov-21-2017 at 3:47pm.

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    mandolin slinger Steve Ostrander's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    Funny you should mention this. I just turned on my whole house humidifier last night, and of course it didn't work. But since it's a new house and has never been used. I called for warranty service and they fixed it today.

    I also use in-case humidifiers as well. It is possible to over-humidify, but almost impossible in the winter when it's so very dry. In the summer I shut down the whole-house unit and turn on the AC, and everybody is happy--including my instruments.
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    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    I use a stand alone unit an have for decades. The new ones work well with only a fan go moving parts. I run the fan on low and it is very quiet. I have seen ductwork rust from the furnace humidifiers, we always figured where the rust stopped so did the moisture.

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    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    We have electric baseboard heating, so no option for whole house humidifiers. I've been using Oasis and Ontek/Kyser soundhole humidifiers on my guitars for years. Haven't decided which method for the mandolins. Also have a small room humidifier.

    Maybe am lucky, but our condo rarely gets down to the low 30's for r/h. Need to be a fairly long cold snap for that to happen. Still want to watch it, as this is my first winter with mandolins in the house.
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    Middle-Aged Old-Timer Tobin's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    I dread this time of year. The dry winter wind, coupled with heating my old house with two gas furnaces, makes it tough on everything. My sinuses dry out and I get headaches. My skin gets dry and itchy. The wood floors and stairs start to creak. I'm sure my baby grand piano hates it. My instruments all have Oasis humidifiers in their cases, and even filling them weekly doesn't seem to be enough. If I go a whole week, they'll be shriveled up and completely dried out. Usually 4-5 days seems like the optimal refill time cycle. But it gets to be a chore, having to open up all the cases and pull them all out, take them all downstairs and fill them ever-so-gently with the syringe.

    I've tried running an evaporative room humidifier in my music room, but it really doesn't even make a dent in the humidity. I don't know where all the moisture goes, but I can refill the little tank every day and it'll be bone dry when I get home from work, but my hygrometer will still tell me it's only 20% RH in there, which is no different than the rest of the house.

    This year I may break down and get some larger stand-alone humidifiers like Stevo75 mentioned. I put it off every year, thinking that I really don't need to do it. But I'm getting real tired of being miserable in the dry winter, even if my instruments are doing OK. A whole-house humidification system seems like a good idea, but it's too expensive when I have two furnace systems (one downstairs and another upstairs) and the A/C guys around here don't know much about installing them.
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    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    I nearly ruined a pre-war Martin tenor guitar by over humidifying it. The glue became very loose.

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    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    Mine holds 5 gal. of water, so no need to fill every day. Since you can place them nearly anywhere I have a water line going to the humidifier so all I have to do is turn the water on to fill it. I also made a gauge from a small dowel and a piece of styrofoam so I can easily tell when it is getting full. Overfilled they make a mess.

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    Registered User Hallmark498's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    Does the top of the mandolin sink some when getting to dry?

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    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    My seat of the pants estimate is around 1 gallon per day per 500 sq ft, to maintain proper humidity in a dry climate. It is difficult to humidify a single room without an oversized humidifier in it. The humidity will seep out. In my experience, the humidifier should be rated for around 2x-3x times the space you plan to humidify.

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    Does the top of the mandolin sink some when getting to dry?
    Yes
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    Mandolin user MontanaMatt's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrasser78 View Post
    Yes great idea but that still doesn't help your instrument while in its case? I have several cool air/mist humidifiers but still use the little Oasis tube type humidifiers in my instrument cases and have to refill them every few weeks? I should look into what ya said about hooking one up to the heating system then I wouldn't need the room humidifiers? But I still believe in the case humidifiers.
    I've had two of that brand leak, be careful using humidifiers that hold volumes of liquid water in a case. I haven't had a disaster yet, but see the potential for it.
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    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    Quote Originally Posted by O. Apitius View Post
    A deleted post in the builder's section reminded me that it's time for my annual rant on the importance of humidifying your home when your heating system starts to run regularly.
    I installed one of these whole house humidifiers on my furnace in my previous home. I eventually turned it off because of the constant condensation build up on my windows was damaging their wood frames. I tried lowering the humidity level in the unit to very low, but still had the window problems. Windows are NOT cheap to replace.

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    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    These are expensive, but I bought a couple over the past few years (one for upstairs and one for downstairs), and they work the best of anything I've tried.

    https://venta-usa.com/

    They have different sizes for the size of your room/house and I use about a gallon of water per day per unit. I have the L45 unit. It's pretty quiet and filters/purifies the water too.

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  27. #19
    Registered User O. Apitius's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relio View Post
    I installed one of these whole house humidifiers on my furnace in my previous home. I eventually turned it off because of the constant condensation build up on my windows was damaging their wood frames. I tried lowering the humidity level in the unit to very low, but still had the window problems. Windows are NOT cheap to replace.
    Yes than can be a problem. I have had new, efficient, all vinyl windows installed in my house a few years back and the problem has been greatly reduced. Room size humidifiers would also cause the same problem in a room with a window. I personally don't like in-the-case humidifiers because they are very difficult to control and have caused serious problems for some owners.

    "Al Trujillo,
    Appreciate your reminder but I do have one question regarding the furnace mounted humidifier. Does it blow vapor directly into the ventilation system? My concern with adding moisture to the ductwork is whether it increases the chances of creating mold growth in the system.

    Otherwise, humidity (to a point!) and mandolins is a good thing during our dry winters."
    The unit I have is mounted to the intake or, return plenum with a short duct running from the main plenum, just above the heating unit into the humidifier. They air coming out of my heat registers is not noticably moist and I have not seen any signs of mold or rust it any of my duct work. (I also use a furnace air filter that claims to trap mold spores as well as other allergens) YMMV

    "Bluegrasser 78
    Yes great idea but that still doesn't help your instrument while in its case? I have several cool air/mist humidifiers but still use the little Oasis tube type humidifiers in my instrument cases and have to refill them every few weeks? I should look into what ya said about hooking one up to the heating system then I wouldn't need the room humidifiers? But I still believe in the case humidifiers.
    If the air in your home is properly humidified, then as you play you mandolin, leave the case case open. Both the mandolin and the case will attain equilibrium with your home's humidity and there should be no reason to add more humidity to you case.

    I'm so happy that most people recognize the need to maintain proper humidity (and temperature) levels for proper care of their instruments. 20 or so years ago that didn't seem to be the case for many. I have my preferred method for reasons that I have stated but I know that not everyone has the same set up. The main thing is, that you do something.
    If it's something you can afford, I've seen some nice instrument storage cabinets that would look good in any room and display your instruments while making them easy to access for playing/practicing. They seem like a good alternative for some. I know for me, if an instrument is in it's case, it is basically "out of sight, out of mind" and my chances of getting it out when I only have a short time to play is slim to none.

    Bottom line, do some research, then decide on the approach that suits you best. Doing nothing is the worst option.
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    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    Well I have a gauge in my music room, and believe me I'm experienced enough to not over humidify an instrument! Nobody wants that when your playing mandolins that cost 50G+ or a G ! Anyone that has been to festivals will tell you that if its too wet and rainy etc... your instrument will sound like s&%# at that venue! I believe in common sense and in winter up here in northwestern PA one should humidify the inside of your case. You'll know at the worst when your action drops and strings start to buzz etc...I don't believe that room humidifiers/whole house units will seep moisture in your case? I think its best to humidify your case/inside your instrument to be on the safe side against those nasty cracks etc...I haven't had a problem yet using this method. I won't knock anyone's method if it works for them.

    Trust me I'd love to keep my instruments out of their case's but with a few little ones running around I sure don't dare! I made the mistake once of leaving my Master model case open while I played my mando and my little girl plopped herself in it and bent the lid back so I keep em closed for now and all is

  29. #21

    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    I don't believe that room humidifiers/whole house units will seep moisture in your case?
    I have put hygrometers in various instrument cases over the years (because I wasn't fully convinced myself) and they are always within a few percent of the room humidity (which has always been humidified via an evaporative humidifier). It seems humidity does freely travel through anything that isn't totally sealed.
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  30. #22
    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaMatt View Post
    I've had two of that brand leak, be careful using humidifiers that hold volumes of liquid water in a case. I haven't had a disaster yet, but see the potential for it.
    Yup. One of my Oasis deluxe had a seam leak after 2 years. A friend had a seam entirely fail. So, yes, it can happen. I still feel it's the best model. And that's with 5 Ontek/Kyser soundhole humidifiers in the house.

    Personally, have always felt that Bob Taylor and staff pounded proper humidification into so many dealers (and customers) that it has sort of taken hold.
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  31. #23
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    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    I have a couple hygrometers that I bought from the reptile department at PetSmart. They fit in my cases and only cost about $6 each.
    Out of tune and out of time.

  32. #24

    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    I have used these each heating season (Oct-May) for almost six years and they seem to work well:

    https://www.elderly.com/accessories/...humidifier.htm

    I soak the sponges once a week with distilled water, then squeeze out the excess, and that suffices for upstate NY winters. I put them in the case as close to the body of the mandolin as possible.

    I had a furnace humidifier when I had a forced hot air system. Keeping it clean and running was a constant chore, and most of the moisture in the air from that or from room humidifiers ended up condensing in the attic or on windows and causing problems. Also, the room units required distilled water, and lugging gallons of that home each week was a hassle. I can get through most of a season on a gallon of distilled water for the case humidifiers.

  33. #25

    Default Re: It's time for many in the north to start humidifting.

    I live in a tropical climate but run the AC at 70 degrees 24/7. Should I be running a humidifier?

    Also, I need one of my mandos fixed, and have to send it up north to do it. Should I wait until the spring? I imagine fed ex doesn't make a habit of humidifying their trucks or facilities.

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