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Thread: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

  1. #26
    Registered User mandotool's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    I played thru most of Gruhn's mandolin inventory last month...first time to the new shop....had a nice visit W/ George and Joe Spann ....A/B'd thru all the Loars etc.. also came across a Wienman....a real knockout ....pushed all my buttons......and wasn't even played in yet..
    Keep an eye on this Wienman character...he'll be movin on up.......
    to the east side....etc..
    Capt. Obvious reporting

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  3. #27

    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    Quote Originally Posted by rockies View Post
    I wonder ..... if this mandolin is built by Jamie Wiens ? Jamie told me a while back he was working on a lower price version of his Loar type mandolins. Just wondering !!
    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Streip View Post
    Not according to the builder's site:

    http://www.vintagebydesign.com/about.html
    The first Richard Bachman novels had photos and full bio on the book jacket. All bogus.
    "I play BG so that's what I can talk intelligently about." A line I loved and pirated from Mandoplumb

  4. #28
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    Quote Originally Posted by FLATROCK HILL View Post
    The first Richard Bachman novels had photos and full bio on the book jacket. All bogus.
    Exactly. So if Jamie Wiens wanted to craft a new identity, he'd choose a name more dissimilar to his real one.
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  6. #29
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    From Flatrockhill - " The first Richard Bachman novels had photos and full bio on the book jacket. All bogus.". The 'real' author got one heck of a kick out of doing that as well - he laughed all the way to the bank !!. It doesn't matter 'who's name' is on the cover (headstock), quality will always be recognised,
    Ivan
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  8. #30
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall;1613440[B
    quality [/B]will always be recognised,
    Ivan
    Not related to the mandolin in OP:
    Sure that is true and one pays for quality, but you cannot judge quality from few new examples. I did extensive repairs of deformed top on a Schoffield mandolin and heard that more than few of the maker from his early era suffer from thin tops...they can give you immediate WOW effect in tone department but when the top fails after few years it's no good. I heard of maker who bought back as many of his early ones as he could or offered trade for newer one as he considered them inferior to his curent production (at the time), not everyone goes that extra mile. If you buy from seasoned builder you know how he treats his customers and how well his instruments do after few years. No surprises.

    Back to OP:
    I would expect lifetime warranty backed by Gruhn for that mandolin. $5.5k mando deserves such warranty.
    Adrian

  9. #31
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    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoGo View Post
    Not related to the mandolin in OP:
    Sure that is true and one pays for quality, but you cannot judge quality from few new examples. I did extensive repairs of deformed top on a Schoffield mandolin and heard that more than few of the maker from his early era suffer from thin tops...they can give you immediate WOW effect in tone department but when the top fails after few years it's no good. I heard of maker who bought back as many of his early ones as he could or offered trade for newer one as he considered them inferior to his curent production (at the time), not everyone goes that extra mile. If you buy from seasoned builder you know how he treats his customers and how well his instruments do after few years. No surprises.

    Back to OP:
    I would expect lifetime warranty backed by Gruhn for that mandolin. $5.5k mando deserves such warranty.
    I will ask Will Wienman and George Gruhn today but I seriously doubt if Gruhn's would offer a life time's warranty on an instrument made by an independent builder.
    My two favorite pastimes are drinking wine and playing the mandolin but most of my friends would rather hear me drink wine! Adapted from quote by Mark Twain------supposedly !

  10. #32
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    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    We can think of a fair number of companies and individual builders charging prices we don't agree with and hold very strong opinions about but which we typically keep to ourselves. Based on what we know about this particular mandolin, the builder, his background and the people in Nashville that have seen their work and played it, this wouldn't be one of them.

    What a wonderful welcoming mat we are as a community towards this builder who may be unfamiliar on a larger stage. Please let this post state the Mandolin Cafe does not endorse what we view as petty questioning and comments from a few made in this thread.

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  12. #33
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    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandolin Cafe View Post
    We can think of a fair number of companies and individual builders charging prices we don't agree with and hold very strong opinions about but which we typically keep to ourselves. Based on what we know about this particular mandolin, the builder, his background and the people in Nashville that have seen their work and played it, this wouldn't be one of them.

    What a wonderful welcoming mat we are as a community towards this builder who may be unfamiliar on a larger stage. Please let this post state the Mandolin Cafe does not endorse what we view as petty questioning and comments from a few made in this thread.
    As far as I can tell, this may be the first mandolin they have built to sell which does make me somewhat nervous to put money down on ! Just say'in ! I would like to take the step to buy but have mixed feelings !
    My two favorite pastimes are drinking wine and playing the mandolin but most of my friends would rather hear me drink wine! Adapted from quote by Mark Twain------supposedly !

  13. #34
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    Quote Originally Posted by yankees1 View Post
    As far as I can tell, this may be the first mandolin they have built to sell which does make me somewhat nervous to put money down on ! Just say'in ! I would like to take the step to buy but have mixed feelings !
    Shrug. If I had Dudenbostel #1 or Monteleone #1 or Nugget #1, I doubt I would complain about it.
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  15. #35
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    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    It seems to me that a new builder would want to get his product in as many hands as he can and asking a high price isn`t the way to go about it I'm my opinion, I don`t expect him to give it away but offering it a lesser price would seem like the way to get his product known to a lot of pickers...I`m sure that if Gruhan`s took it in to sell it must be a nice instrument...Time will tell...

    Willie
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    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    After seeing their website I have no reason to think this is an inexperienced builder. Regardless, people can ask what they want, laissez-faire. By stocking their product and listing it in his store I suspect Mr. Gruhn probably had more than a little say in what price he felt comfortable representing for this instrument. My bet's on the builder.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    I've played Pava #1` and certainly would love to own it.

    This always comes back to what you are buying, a name that will impress your friends and be easy to resell after the new wears off, or a mandolin that you are buying because you want it to play for a good long while.

    If you churn mandolins, you are always better off with the known vs the new.
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  18. #38
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    From Willie - "....and asking a high price isn't the way to go about it I'm my opinion,..". I fully understand your point Willie - BUT !!. The old open air market traders used to say that if you're selling pairs of shoes for $5 a pair & they're not selling - put 'em up to $15 a pair & they'll sell like hot cakes !!. People's perceptions of what constitutes a ''bargain'' is weird. Too cheap & they can't be any good,so hike the price up & they'll be seen as a 'bargain'.

    IMHO - George Gruhn & the builder have evaluated the mandolin's qualities,both with respect to it's build & it's tone, & have placed a value on it commensuarate with those qualities in comparison with other mandolins. I know that the builder is relatively unknown,but so was Steve Gilchrist when he launched his first mandolin into the world,but if this mandolin sounds as good as it apparently does,it deserves to be ''priced at the appropriate level'',& in today's market $5,500 isn't a huge amount to pay for a mandolin - purely MY opinion,
    Ivan
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  19. #39
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    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    Lowering the price establishes the price.

    Once that's done, good luck getting the price back up.

  20. #40
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    Written by Gruhn: http://guitars.com/newsletter/critic...es-instruments

    I would like to know how much critical the factors in the article are. For new maker only few of the factors come to play and it looks like $5K is acceptable for many players as starting point if ithe instrument plays and looks good.
    First Gilchrist mandolins didn't sell for big dollars, he started at approximately $1k back in early 80's and got to the prices he gets now over three decades of hard consistent quality work and I fully understand that. Reminds how much inflation has to do with prices...
    Adrian

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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    As experience grows so will price and value, if Gruhn feels the value warrants that price who are we, the folks who do not have it in hand, to offer any criticism of the instruments value.
    New production people have to find their feet somehow, boutique builders can ask their price as they are essentially individually built.
    When runs of a dozen are in production it becomes a little different cost/time ratio.
    In any event I think it’s very pretty if it sounds as good as it looks? If I had the money, I’d bite!
    I wish the man as much luck as shop space allows!
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  22. #42
    Registered User Bob Clark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    Granted, my product (wine) is very different from mandolins, but I'll bet some of the same principles apply. I have learned that 'introductory low prices' don't pay. People resent the increase when you shift to a more realistic price. Prices that reflect the actual value of the product from the outset really do seem to work best for me.

    I also don't like underpaying artisans. They deserve to be rewarded for their work. If this Luthier's work merits that price, that is what it should be.

    As for this mandolin, I greatly respect Mr. Gruhn's opinion. It looks like a very well made instrument. If I was in the market for this type of mandolin in this price range, I would give it careful consideration. Why not? If it sounds and plays as good as it looks, it is going to make somebody very happy.
    Purr more, hiss less.

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  24. #43
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    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Clark View Post
    .....I also don't like underpaying artisans. They deserve to be rewarded for their work. If this Luthier's work merits that price, that is what it should be.

    As for this mandolin, I greatly respect Mr. Gruhn's opinion. It looks like a very well made instrument. If I was in the market for this type of mandolin in this price range, I would give it careful consideration. Why not? If it sounds and plays as good as it looks, it is going to make somebody very happy.
    Actually, IMO no one should be under paid for their work.

    "If the luthier's work is merits that price,that is what he should be paid."

    I agree but that is the question. It seems to me that at this time we have no evidence one way or the other about the "if" do we?

    And as well do we know who set the price? Was it the builder or the store?

    Let's see if it is still for sale one month from today.

    I looked closely at the pictures of the mandolin and it shows up well and it is well appointed -- however I not sure that the scroll and the top sunburst look like $5,500 to me. Your opinion might vary.
    Bernie
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  26. #44
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    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    A couple of posters here on this thread have seen/played this mandolin and raved about the sound and looks ! And George Gruhn took this instrument to Rhonda Vincent and she loved it. George said this Wienman was better than all of Rhonda's mandolins except the one Gibson Master model and this Gibson cost $20,000. ! But------------ none bought it either !
    My two favorite pastimes are drinking wine and playing the mandolin but most of my friends would rather hear me drink wine! Adapted from quote by Mark Twain------supposedly !

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  28. #45
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    Adrian - The prices for Steve Gilchrist's mandolins was virtually set by the buyers buying them & selling them on at an inflated price. SG realised that if his mandolins were so good as to attract higher prices,why shouldn't he,as the builder benefit,so he raised his prices. The rest as they say is history. Also,just how much was $1k worth close to 40 years ago ?. According to the latest US inflation calculator,$1k in 1980 was worth $3,150 US today. https://www.saving.org/inflation/inf...ount=1,000,000

    Not such a far cry from $5,500, allowing for increased material / production costs as well,
    Ivan
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  29. #46
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall View Post
    Also,just how much was $1k worth close to 40 years ago ?. According to the latest US inflation calculator,$1k in 1980 was worth $3,150 US today. https://www.saving.org/inflation/inf...ount=1,000,000

    Not such a far cry from $5,500, allowing for increased material / production costs as well,
    Ivan
    The increase of material / production cost is already covered by the inflation coefficient.
    I'd think that easy wide availability of materials today make it actually easier to source than 40 years ago when there were very few suppliers... Also total lack of competition and rising popularity of BG adds points to Gilchrist in 80's.
    Adrian

  30. #47
    Purveyor of Sunshine sgarrity's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    Looks like a nice mandolin. That asking price isn’t out of line, especially when you consider that George is making a cut too. A few years back here was a newer builder asking $10k for his F5. Now that was bold! Best of luck to the builder!

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  32. #48
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    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    I probably would have bought it but this time I'm really looking for an Engelman top mandolin ( F5). Considering a Wienman or Norhfield Artist!
    My two favorite pastimes are drinking wine and playing the mandolin but most of my friends would rather hear me drink wine! Adapted from quote by Mark Twain------supposedly !

  33. #49

    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    Interesting discussion -- pricing vs quality vs established track record/experience. NFI and I don't know who Wienman is but most of these builders who "spring up out of nowhere" usually have 25+ years of experience working for somebody else that we might have heard of. I don't know if that is the case here or not. Quality speaks for itself, but pricing is another matter. It takes nerve to say, "I won't work for less than so and so $$, but can be a good strategy. Having Gruhn's backing doesn't hurt, IMHO. Gruhn has probably seen more instruments than anybody out there. Getting somebody to buy is another story. I think on the local level in my community, how does one body shop or plumber get to charge twice as much as another place? Usually quality of workmanship or reputation -- or both. Let the people decide.....
    Last edited by Jeff Mando; Nov-25-2017 at 12:27pm.

  34. #50
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wienman F-5 at Gruhn's?

    There’s more than one member here who own some pretty serious instruments built by a builder who flies under the radar, save for a few frequencies and, his pieces and prices are “Very serious”. Just sort of echoing what Jeff says, some builders that “spring up”have been doing this long before this amazing communication network we have now.
    And showing up on the market and, selling two different things. When it sells than there might be something to talk about but, this thing has gotten a lot of press right here!
    Timothy F. Lewis
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