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Thread: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

  1. #1

    Default Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    Gibson Style H-5 Mandola, 1924, serial no. 74871, Virzi Tone no. 10025, the label dated January 7, 1924, and signed by Lloyd Loar, with original case.
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    Last edited by danb; Nov-09-2017 at 3:45pm.

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    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    Undocumented, and a new signature date..

    It has an h4-style pickguard and tailpiece, though the bracket is a screw-in type like a typical loar (triple binding style).. This H5 appears to be single-bound too.

    Rybka is a well-known name (see F5 75709.. last seen by me with Tony Williamson who might have a bit of insight on this H5?
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    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    That's 299 Loars. I feel we need to find another
    Last edited by danb; Nov-09-2017 at 4:43pm.
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  7. #4

    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    Dan... does it look like it only has a single layer of cream colored binding (no black and white line)? Also the only other flowerpot mandola I've seen is Dawgs. His has the single layer of binding as well and is a 1923.

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    Registered User CWRoyds's Avatar
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    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    The original owner of the instrument picture seated on the left.
    Photo from www.realgroovemusic.org (cleaned up slightly by me).

    "Pictured right: The Rybka Imperial Mandolin Orchestra, Portland, OR circa 1925. #Seated, left, with the round glasses holding the K-4 Mandocello is Joseph F. Rybka; seated, center, #Charles Kruger, holding the Rybka Gibson F-5 signed Feb. 18, 1924"

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    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    I think that this picture shows that the H5 had an H4 pickguard as early as 1925..
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    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn Dudenbostel View Post
    Dan... does it look like it only has a single layer of cream colored binding (no black and white line)? Also the only other flowerpot mandola I've seen is Dawgs. His has the single layer of binding as well and is a 1923.
    Yes- it does look that way to me.. but I'm just going on the same pictures linked above.

    72663 (no pictures) is the only one earlier than this one- that must be the one you mean
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    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    I'm no Loar expert but Know some things and have a passion for 30's Gibson mandolins, for all the oddities that exist with them. I seen this H-5 a few days ago through the auction house email I receive and Gbase. I seen what Dan remarked with the style 4 guard and cover but didn't notice the binding. Also the flowerpot and date hit me right away as different most all H-5's are fern's. Also I knew the name of the Mandola's owner/orchestra cause of the archive and of course what was mentioned about Tony W. recently having the F-5 up for sale. "I sure looked at the F-5 enough" Looks like a well loved played in H-5 to me that someone lucky will buy!
    So the count is 299 now? Has there been pix and info on that almost unbelievable 20 dollar Loar F-5 yet from the San Jose flea market? I seen the serial # was mentioned.
    I was talking with David Harvey the other day on the phone and just saying to each other there are still missing Loar and 30's F-5's and such out there also some known F-4's that matched 1 Loar F-5 for sure with a double case that a well known builder could've bought but declined years ago and hasn't surfaced yet. Also that nice 38 F-5 that surfaced at Retofret that he just did a neck set on.
    They are still out there and being found and that's just a great preservation of musical history. It's a wonder how many have been lost to fire etc...I know one 1925 F-5 that suffered the dreaded house fire tragedy recently so that one should be mentioned in the archive as "gone" Terrible! Thanks always to the mandolin café/ Dan B. and other forum individuals for the work they do here on the preservation of knowledge on these instruments we all love and enjoy playing.

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    wood butcher Spruce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrasser78 View Post
    Has there been pix and info on that almost unbelievable 20 dollar Loar F-5 yet from the San Jose flea market?
    Yes, here tis'....
    No pics as of yet, but I've seen some...

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrasser78 View Post
    Looks like a well loved played in H-5 to me that someone lucky will buy!
    I love seeing honest wear like that...what a cool looking instrument...

    "Estimate:
    $35,000 - $55,000"


    Can someone school me on Loar mandola prices??
    I thought they were indeed changing hands for 50K or so, but I've seen several lately in the 100K range...?
    Just curious what they go for in relationship to the F5s...
    Thanks!

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    Speaking of instruments from Portland, is Ken Culver's Loar documented among the 299?
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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    Quote Originally Posted by Spruce View Post
    Yes, here tis'....
    No pics as of yet, but I've seen some...



    I love seeing honest wear like that...what a cool looking instrument...

    "Estimate:
    $35,000 - $55,000"


    Can someone school me on Loar mandola prices??
    I thought they were indeed changing hands for 50K or so, but I've seen several lately in the 100K range...?
    Just curious what they go for in relationship to the F5s...
    Thanks!
    Well, here's one on sale for $75K
    http://mandoweb.com/Instruments/Gibs...1924-1924/3431

    And this one's still at $105K
    https://cartervintage.com/products/1...nt=20352287363

    Skinner's premium is 23% on the first $100K, so if the gavel price meets the top estimate of $55K, the buyer will pay $67.65K — still a bargain.
    Emando.com: More than you wanted to know about electric mandolins.

    Notorious: My Celtic CD--listen & buy!

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  17. #12
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    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn Dudenbostel View Post
    ...Also the only other flowerpot mandola I've seen is Dawgs...
    Funny you should mention that mandola, I do believe I was with the gentleman that sold that mandola to David tonight.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

  18. #13

    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    Funny you should mention that mandola, I do believe I was with the gentleman that sold that mandola to David tonight.
    Methinks not friend. That gentlemen passed away years ago.

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    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    Quote Originally Posted by danb View Post
    That's 299 Loars. I feel we need to find another
    I could give you 300 if you want. It's a pretty interesting one too.

    Phil

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    Registered User f5loar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    There are quite a few Loar numbers that were sold to owners before the start of the F5Journal and those owners either don't know about the F5Journal or they simply don't want anyone to know what it is they own. This new number, signed on a date not found on a Loar before, does open up a possible new batch of Loars, but it's likely just a one off and sure shows signs of being a proto-type H5.

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  24. #16

    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg View Post
    Methinks not friend. That gentlemen passed away years ago.
    How cool is that, Mr. Grisman called you Friend.
    '02 Gibson master model #70327 02-01-02
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    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    Quote Originally Posted by goaty76 View Post
    I could give you 300 if you want. It's a pretty interesting one too.

    Phil
    nice, please send me a message
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    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg View Post
    Methinks not friend. That gentlemen passed away years ago.
    OK, must have been another instrument you bought many years ago. I hadn't seen this gentleman in many years. I believe this sale was arranged by Charlie D.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Registered User dang's Avatar
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    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    Dawg keeps up with the cafe on the road!!!
    Last edited by dang; Nov-10-2017 at 8:19am. Reason: Reword
    I should be pickin' rather than postin'

  29. #20
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    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    Quote Originally Posted by f5loar View Post
    There are quite a few Loar numbers that were sold to owners before the start of the F5Journal and those owners either don't know about the F5Journal or they simply don't want anyone to know what it is they own. This new number, signed on a date not found on a Loar before, does open up a possible new batch of Loars, but it's likely just a one off and sure shows signs of being a proto-type H5.
    Very true, I told my Uncle Gene Johnson who has the first known # F-5 of the feb 18th 24 batch that his was in the archive-he said he didn't know about the Loar archive. His Loar came from Rochester and was from a Mandolin Orchestra player, his name still graces the nickel truss rod cover, my point is I for sure agree that some don't know or don't want them to be known! Also there may be a Loar F-5 that matches this date on the H-5 that went to that orchestra? Strange it would be a one off date but Gibson anything was possible. also I know of 2 for sure F-5's from the 30's that are not in the archive.
    I just think all this is KOOL after almost 100 years these almost mythical instruments are coming out of the woodwork-And I'm a gambling man and there will be more to come! Hey I have a 24 tenor lute that's not listed in the archive, Also some prewar F-7's and a rare 1935 F-12 that's not listed in the archive. And that's just little ole me, there are others!

  30. #21

    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    I agree, people have been hoarding instruments long before the internet.......I'm sure there are more out there.

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    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    Perhaps we could count the one discussed here as two
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

  32. #23
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    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrasser78 View Post
    Hey I have a 24 tenor lute that's not listed in the archive....
    Have Mr. Vessel convert it, and you'll have yourself one fine mandola....

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  34. #24
    Registered User bluegrasser78's Avatar
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    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    Already spoke with him, may keep original and get one from buddy Ken Waltham that's done already. I've spoke about getting one of his "Loar Tribute's" like the last one I drooled and frothed at the mouth, chomped at the bit etc... Just been on the wait to see if a deal goes through so I can send him some $$$.

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  36. #25
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Undocumented Loar? Gibson Style H-5 Mandol

    I think Bill Halsey did Ken's if I recall.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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