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Thread: The Thumb and The Pick

  1. #1
    Old Guy Mike Scott's Avatar
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    Default The Thumb and The Pick

    Ever since I have played the mandolin, I’ve had an issue with the pick. On guitar I finger pick so no issue there. The issue is I have kind of short fingers and so the pick rides on the first knuckle of my thumb. Lately as I’ve concentrated on playing more mandolin, the knuckle has become irritated which has caused issues with playing. I’ve tried thick pics, thin picks, small, large, modified them, and even modified my grip position. Unfortunately the pick, no matter type, thickness, shape, etc just seems to slide back and irritate the knuckle. And it doesn’t matter grip pressure. I’ve tried light and hard. I am at a crossroad here. I have some other issues too and have started playing dobro, where I don’t have these pick issues. I enjoy many aspects of playing mando but......

    So, any tips on the pick issue? May just need to move on....... You folks have always been very helpful to my past stupid questions which has been greatly appreciated.
    Thanks

    Several mandolins of varying quality-any one of which deserves a better player than I am.......

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    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    Mike, is it possible to post a pic of how you hold the pick, that might help with trying to figure something out. How hard are you playing? Playing hard gets you louder, but not that much really compared to playing easier, and would not put as much stress on your thumb.
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    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    I wonder if anyone has ever made a plastic like pick something like a finger pick that is used on a banjo only have the point stick straight out farther and you could grip it also with your thumb and use it just about like you would a straight pick, it would never turn or slip like a straight pick....I am sure some one has tried this with a finger pick and some super glue...Hmmmm.....

    Willie

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    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    I haven't seen one that goes straight out, but you can get a flat pick that has a thumb pick wrap around to keep it in place and allow you to use as a thumbpick for fingerpicking or a flat pick. That may help too. Good call Willie, I forgot about those and I have some.
    Last edited by pops1; Nov-09-2017 at 1:16pm.
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  8. #5
    Old Guy Mike Scott's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    I hold the pick as recommended by Chris Thile in his video. Thumb size and knuckle size/location seems to be the issue. Perhaps glueing an old thumb pick to a flat pick is a possibility, but again thumb size would probably result in some awkwardness unless I really grind away at the edge of the flat pick so it doesn’t contact the knuckle........
    Last edited by Mike Scott; Nov-09-2017 at 2:09pm. Reason: Stupid auto correct
    Thanks

    Several mandolins of varying quality-any one of which deserves a better player than I am.......

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    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    Blue Chip makes a thumb pick that's metal where it wraps around your thumb and has the Blue Chip material riveted on. Maybe you could talk to them and see if they could make one custom for you to fit your needs.

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  11. #7
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    Struggling with the pick is common. If the pick is sliding, your grip pressure is too light, but crushing it is too hard. I’ve also rotated my hand position where I feel I’m picking slightly upward on the downstroke, but still using a rest stroke, which gets my knuckles to clear the strings. But it’s still a work in progress for me. But I’ve stopped breaking fingernails and chewing up my pinky knuckle.
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    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    "Struggling with the pick is common."

    That statement gives me hope! As a long time guitarist, I find the "correct" mandolin hold feels strange and I have little control switching from playing melody vs chords (chop or strum). I actually find the less I think about it the easier it is to have the pick find an in-between hold that just works.

    Either way, playing a lot seems to help ("practicing")!

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    Mike: When you fingerpick on guitar do you use fingerpicks or bare fingers? I don't know if this helps but one of the best guitarists (and guitar makers) in the world is Wayne Henderson. His guitar and mandolin playing sounds as if he is flatpicking but in actuality he uses a thumbpick and finger picks.

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  17. #10
    Old Guy Mike Scott's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    Bare fingers on the guitar and thumb and finger picks on dobro (squareneck)
    Thanks

    Several mandolins of varying quality-any one of which deserves a better player than I am.......

  18. #11

    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    The other part of the equation is how you are striking the strings. I strive to brush the top of the strings rather than dig in, even while picking as well as strumming. Bryan Kimsey once said he aims for the upper third of the string.

    And keep all the motion of my hand in the plane of the strings, without twisting and without moving toward or away from the top of the instrument. If you keep striking the knuckle it may be because you are moving toward and away from the strings, regardless of how you hold the pick. One of the flatpick instructors at Kaufman Kamp helped clear me up on that issue though I am far from having it fixed completely.

    Everybody has a slightly different take on how the mechanics work best for them but these two things helped me a lot.

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    Registered User Nick Quig's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    Try a Fred Kelly 'Bumble Bee' .. It's a cross between a flat pick and a thumb pick.

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  22. #13
    Old Guy Mike Scott's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    Thanks for the Bumble Bee suggestion. In searching for it I also found a Herco brand one that was similar. Ordered each. I may need to do some mods on the knuckle side edge, but maybe not. Hope they solve the problem. Otherwise there may be a couple of nice mandolins up for sale soon......
    Thanks

    Several mandolins of varying quality-any one of which deserves a better player than I am.......

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    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    The Herco is the one I was thinking of, meant to go check before posting, you beat me to it.
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  24. #15

    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    And there's the Fred Kelly speed pick.

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    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    This thread talks about Monster grip and gorilla snot and other stuff you could apply. I've also tried thin parallel strips of adhesive backed course sandpaper (I think it was actually skateboard decking), on either side of where the finger pad held the pick; that worked pretty well but I decided it was too abrasive

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  28. #17

    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    I have been working on increasing my picking speed lately, just using a metronome to try to get my pick going up and down with good tone on one, two, three and four strings at faster speeds. As one does, I change speed a lot, practicing at speeds near, at and even over my limit, and sometimes back in ranges where it is already very easy. I also vary my volume, to analyze the nuances of each tempo. What I have become conscious of is how active my grip is. The pick isn’t “locked in”, but constantly undergoing micro adjustments. The more I practice, the more the adjustments become effortless.

    Doing this kind of deliberate practice might help you.
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  30. #18
    Old Guy Mike Scott's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    Not to get obtuse or defensive but the issue is NOT pick movement. It is the size of the pick, the size of my thumb and the shape of the knuckle the pick “rides” on. Spit, gorilla snot, those adhesive strips have all been used - none have any impact on the problem. I will let this thread go where ever it goes, but I am hopeful that either the Bumble Bee or the Herco will solve my issue. Thanks for all the replies and advice.
    Thanks

    Several mandolins of varying quality-any one of which deserves a better player than I am.......

  31. #19

    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Scott View Post
    just seems to slide back...
    I’m confused. Slide = move.
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    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    In this vid, watch how Paul Hoffman - Greensky Bluegrass is holding the pick with 3 fingers, which is different from almost everybody else: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTJJdlswFPE

    Thumbpicks: I have a pretty extensive collection of thumbpicks recommended by Banjo hangout and tried a lot of them on mandolin. The metal ones (Greipel/Dr. Sherpa, Dunlop, Propik etc) sounded awful, the Kelly speedpick, Blue Chip JDCrowe and the Kroyden from American Made Banjo had nice tone but the blade was at the wrong angle and I couldn't really strum chords with a rigidly held blade.
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    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    There's also picks you hold with your entire palm: http://www.pykmax.com/

    and this one wraps around your index finger, I think: http://snakepick.com/

    and this one, stated to be 65mm long: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/s...ks-and-strings
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  34. #22
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    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    Some players glue a small piece of cork or sandpaper on their picks to keep them from shifting about. A thumbpick as stated above might work out for you. Luck ... R/
    I love hanging out with mandolin nerds . . . . . Thanks peeps ...

  35. #23

    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    I think the problem with thumb picks is getting good tone on the up stroke. Are there examples of people who achieve this?
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  36. #24
    Old Guy Mike Scott's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    Thanks to all who replied and offered ideas. I believe I have found a solution. Yesterday I filed down the edge of a pick. I had to take off so much of it that the tone was destroyed. Plus it still irritated my thumb. This morning as I had given up and was seeking out trades of my Silverangel for comparable guitars (for finger picking only), it occurred to me that I was only concentrating on the pick, not the thumb. So.......I put a bandaid on so the gauze part was over the irritation and voila problem solved. I even found that the rounded triangle Dunlop Prime Tones don’t slide around too much on the bandaid. I’m kind of stoked - just hope it’s a lasting solution. If anyone else has a similar issue this could potentially be a solution........
    Last edited by Mike Scott; Nov-15-2017 at 12:02pm. Reason: Typo
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    Several mandolins of varying quality-any one of which deserves a better player than I am.......

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  38. #25
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    Default Re: The Thumb and The Pick

    CarlM-- I agree with you he may be curving his strum as I used to do and would find the knuckles would hit the strings. It is a hard habit to break. One that required me to start over with the basics on strumming and picking. I found it was caused by stiff wrist action. Let the wrist relax and start off really slow and slowly moving into the rythm of the piece you are working on.

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