Get Your 4 Year Degree in Bluegrass

[Louise NM]

As to the faculty not having PhDs, an MFA is considered a terminal degree in music performance, studio art, and other fields.

[jesserules]

I'm tempted to wish there were as many universities with Bluegrass schools are there are with Law schools.

[jdchapman]

I strongly disagree with the premise of this post.

I wish education was cheaper too, but in-state tuition at ETSU is under 10K, which is a relative bargain. Based on jams I've been to, the players who come out of the program have generally been afforded a high and intense level of preparation, and can play like monsters.

I can imagine a bogus conservatory, but this one isn't.

A general liberal arts education is a good preparation for thought (and work) in a variety of fields. A major in the performing arts is too. I actually do have a degree in Ethnomusicology, and am a high school principal now. No regrets. Except sometimes I wish I had studied performance a little more intensely. I might play with more facility now.

[John Lloyd]

Bluegrass, as a more specialized and "niche" genre, is probably more risky than orchestral music, maybe not than jazz.

I suspect more people actually listen to bluegrass.

[FLATROCK HILL]

I met a really nice, polite young lady while visiting a music store in Dahlonega Ga. a few years ago. We talked mandolins and bluegrass for quite a while. I mentioned how impressed I was at her knowledge and especially her enthusiasm for BG music. She told me she was a student at ETSU, studying Appalachian/Bluegrass music. I never knew there was such a thing as formal education like that.

She went on to tell me about some of the (required?) reading. She told me that the Richard Smith book, 'Can't You Here Me Callin' changed her life. "I know that book has its critics but the main thing I learned was that Bill Monroe was every bit the genius as the classical composers!"

I can't predict how far her education will take her in life. I do know there plenty of college students studying subjects that are a lot less meaningful.

[billhay4]

an MBA is considered a terminal degree in music performance, studio art, and other fields.

I think you mean MFA.
Bill

[Louise NM]

Yes, I did. Autocorrect "helped" me out with that one.

[tiltman]

I agree with what others have said...a degree is no guarantee of financial success.
A lot of folks don't know this but one of the worst financial decisions you can make is to become a Veterinarian - and I am one!
(granted, things weren't this bad when I started...)

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/bu...rinarians.html

Kirk
Portland, OR

[jdchapman]

Just out of curiosity, why would anyone who posts on this forum be opposed to:

1) Young people choosing to undertake the serious pursuit of a musical tradition?

Or

2) An Appalachian university investing in, promoting and expanding regional music?

[Charlieshafer]

I have no problem at all with ETSU whatsoever. I know a few graduates, and they're very knowledgable and well spoken about all facets and periods of both culture and music. Their approach to the history of American music is far more thorough than many music majors at high-zoot colleges will get ( I can go on about the program at Yale, just down the street, and it's effectiveness, but that's pointless). Berklee and other music-only schools do contain some of the music and social history of ETSU's program, but not much. That said, I'm a great fan of Berklee and friends with many faculty members, but it's not a true college experience. It's a music school.

ETSU is a bit of both, and the cultural background is every bit as important when talking niche or ethnic or regional or whatever Bluegrass is music. So, yeah, it's legitimate and as useful a degree in most disciplines these days... just waiting for my one daughter with a dual major in history and Slavic studies to find something..

[jdchapman]

Ha!

I actually did study Bluegrass at Yale. I did it through the anthro department though, under John Szwed, who was primarily a Jazz guy. The only other mando players I knew there were Klezmer kids.

[Bob Visentin]

Become a Bluegrass Musician. Earn tens of dollars.

[Denny Gies]

Don't know much about the faculty, the tuition seems a bit steep. I heard the ETSU band at a festival a couple of weeks ago. They were somewhat uneven but a couple of them were really good. The fiddler they have had just won the US fiddle championship (old time I think) and then went to Great Britain and won the Celtic fiddle championship. I was impressed.

[Tobin]

Just out of curiosity, why would anyone who posts on this forum be opposed to:

1) Young people choosing to undertake the serious pursuit of a musical tradition?

Or

2) An Appalachian university investing in, promoting and expanding regional music?

I'll just preface this by saying I'm not opposed to these ideas at all. I only question the steep price of tuition compared to the potential career payoff of a degree in folk music. With all the talk these days about bogus schools who fleeced people for tens of thousands of dollars to get worthless degrees, surely it's an honest concern. I'd hate to see young kids get into life-ruining debt for a degree that won't get them a job to pay off the debt. But if the degree does have a provable value, then it's a good thing!

Aside from that, though, there are undoubtedly a lot of people who think that over-analyzing folk music sort of ruins it. Or changes it into something that's not quite as genuine as the traditions from whence it came. I can understand that perspective too, although bluegrass music isn't necessarily as 'folky' as old time music or older folk traditions. Bluegrass seems to have started off as commercial performance music, and there's a lot to study there in terms of marketing, music theory, the melding of previous musical styles (like gospel, blues, old time, etc.). It's fascinating stuff. But again... is there any employer out there who expects his new hires to have such a degree?

[Charlieshafer]

I don't think studying the history and influences can be considered overanalyzing, if anything, it's great that it's happening while it's still fresh. Think of the thousands of papers done each year on long-dead classical musicians. How much more can be said? At least here, you still have the chance to interview a number of the original sources and current practitioners.

As to a college degree in general, why not this? I challenge anyone not going into nursing to try to predict exactly what their career choices will be in 5-6 years. Almost everything to do with tech is less than that age. Doctors? Insurance payouts are limiting them to doc-in-a-boxes. Manufacturing? Robots. Middle management? Where? Where's G.E. anymore. Sears? Probably the most useful degrees, if you listen to the tech giants, are those that stress creativity and communication. Music, when combined with other avenues, fulfills this just fine.

The question to argue is more whether or not any college degree will be necessary. What was that book, Everything I Needed To Know I Learned In Kindergarten? I almost envision a series of learning "pods" which start after high school, and consist of a course in a very specific skill. Then everyone takes a pod or two as necessary throughout their entire life, based on where their career is going. The "4-year degree and join a company for life" thing is long gone.

As to costs, here's an interesting fact I learned recently. In every non-profit college or University, the only profit center they have, or the only place they make money, is in science. Forget business schools, law schools, medical schools, liberal arts. Forget it all. If a college has a strong research program where the faculty can write great grant applications and get them, that'll be the only place where a college shows a positive balance. The major football schools will make a little dough, but that gets eaten up by the rest of the program. So college is just plain expensive, no matter what the degree, and possibly irrelevant, depending on where the world is headed economically.

[stevedenver]

while I thin the world would be a better place if everyone were issued a banjo at birth, for simple happiness,

I'm tempted to wish there were as many universities with Bluegrass schools are there are with Law schools.

well jesse, when you have a legal problem, by all means, find a banjo player and see how you do.





as for the tuition complaints,
$40K,

folks, any of you have put a kid through non state college, you know this is about the low end of tuition.
the whole higher education thing is another thread, but, it aint cheap to run a college.

[Sterling]

Same as a trombone player! Trumpet is a little better.....This is in regards to the post of earning tens of dollars!

[Bob Clark]

College Data says out of state tuition for one year is $41k.

But you really need to know the school's discount rate. The posted tuition is the 'sticker price.' It is not what most students actually pay. In fact, some of the higher-priced colleges can turn out to be a good deal compared to seemingly lower-priced colleges, once the financial aid packages are presented.

[Brian Harris]

Let me offer a solution rather than a criticism... take the $41k a year and live/work in an area with lots of working musicians. Network. Play out - all the time. Fail miserably. Succeed periodically. Be certain you really REALLY want it... all the suffering and uncertainty and late nights.

...then find a rich spouse and live the dream! (okay, that's a bad solution. I'll work on it).

I work at an arts high school. Parents push their kids to college and I tell them, "College will be there. Forever. Your late teens/early twenties won't be. So go do what you want to do now when you can work a full day on 5 minutes sleep."

I'm sure the parents love me.

[Bob Clark]

A general liberal arts education is a good preparation for thought (and work) in a variety of fields. A major in the performing arts is too.

Amen to that. A solid education prepares one for more than just a career in a single field.

[Rheatown]

I guess ETSU bluegrass graduate Kenny Chesney didn’t get this message in time.

[jesserules]

well jesse, when you have a legal problem, by all means, find a banjo player and see how you do.

well steve, our banjo player didn't show up for our last gig, but fortunately there was a lawyer in the audience and he was able to fill in by reciting passages from the 5th edition of Babcock, Massaro, and Spaulding's Civil Procedure whenever it was time for a banjo break. It worked great!

Seriously though, I know just what you mean! There are so few lawyers around these days ....

[Erok]

Become a Bluegrass Musician. Earn tens of dollars.

Become so popular, you need to fight off adoring, attractive people of the opposite sex!

[DataNick]

I know what I think I know and don't know what I am ignorant of...

What I do know is that music (teaching, performing, composition, recording) is a precarious way to make a living. Going to schools like ETSU will give some folks an open door into the profession, I met Adam Steffey's dobro player 2 years ago in the green room at SummerGrass, he was "picked up" by Adam as a current (then) ETSU student.

Going to college and studying whatever is each person's choice...we all have heard stories on each side of the equation from athletes taking basket weaving to folks getting degrees in Shakespearean literature and both being unable to find suitable wages after school.

If you're studying what's your love and passion, more power to you! And you don't play Bluegrass music professionally to earn money, as the avg picker on the tour is making around $25-$35K/year.
That is a fool's errand. You play Bluegrass because you love it!

Career guidance comes into play when anyone ventures down a major/minor path in school. Any degree in music comes with the inherent risk of trying to earn a living in music, but if that's you want, go for it!

A little perspective: my primary fiddler, who's classically trained, graduated summa cum laude from Berklee a few years ago in the jazz violin area. He recently won the CA State Fiddling Championship back in March in the Twin Fiddling division. What does he do to make ends meet besides performing, teaching, recording, etc? He works graveyard at CVS (regional pharmaceutical chain)...nuff said!

[pops1]

While my daughter did not go to these schools, she did get her masters in performance flute. Different from a music degree where you play a variety of instruments, in performance you only play your chosen instrument. You are also required to practice 5 hours a day, every day, on top of your school work, on top of your job if you work, she did. It is incredible and she is an amazing player. She is of course classical and not bluegrass, but it does not guarantee you a job, you still have to audition for an orchestra, providing they have an opening for your instrument. She has played in 7 or 8 other countries and all over the U.S., but she also has a day job in the flute world not playing music. Was it a waste of money, she will tell you no, although she is still paying the loans off after 10+ years. She studied under a world renowned player and performed in many other venues, including a concert with Harry Connick Jr., the Merv Griffin TV Christmas show, ok I am the proud father and will stop here, but an education in music is no different than an education in whatever else you may choose, few people work in the field that they received a degree in, but they studied what interested them.