My Level of Incompetence

[Mark Gunter]

Paraphrasing Astro: Don't take yourself too seriously.

Performance anxiety

[A 4]

Everyone feels this way sometimes, right?

A recent video lesson from Baron Collins-Hill on exactly this feeling:

[Timbofood]

Not being the best picker in the field isn’t bad at all, it’s one of the best ways to LEARN! Especially when you can do it with some friends who are good musicians. Every time I play I learn something, sometimes it’s something NOT to do.
It’s all learning, just pick more with people.
I’ve told the story about my friend, very very solid rhythm guitar player but, she’s a little self conscious and always feels like she’s got to “get in shape” to pick. Stone cold out of the car I think she’s a much better guitar player than a lot. She doesn’t see it but, she is good! She LISTENS to what’s going on not just her part. Many pickers miss the value in the listening part.
Anyway, develop as one can and play as much as possible.

[allenhopkins]

Could I be snarky and say that my incompetence is my listeners' problem, not mine? Especially if I'm having fun?

No, I couldn't be that insensitive...could I?

[JeffD]

"Music is not a competition!"

But playing music sometimes is.

It shouldn't be, and some genres it is more prevalent than others, but two mandolins at a jam is often like two sail boats on the lake.

Or two samurai in the same valley. Or Clint Eastwood and Eli Wallach in the same movie.

[JeffD]

True. But there's another angle to consider, and that is: *cooperation* is also a powerful driving element in the natural world. Especially for individual creatures, where a creature's body may have a whole bunch of different parts (organs etc) that do different jobs but they're all acting together in a seemingly non-competitive, well-coordinated, and cooperative manner with the other parts, to further the well-being of the group as a whole. .

The reason is that those organisms whose organs and parts did not cooperate, could not survive long enough to replicate their DNA.

Those creatures that cooperate in the hunt caught more food, a definite evolutionary advantage, and were able to out survive their less cooperative cousins.

Those sports teams that work better together defeat their opponents more often.


I assure you I am not a competitive player. Mostly because I don't enjoy it. I hate it. If you want to compete with me, you win. I don't need it.

My fun comes from the sudden synchronizing with strangers in a jam. Where we all coalesce at a little higher level than each of us is comfortable with and kind of force each other to up our game. Its a kind of transcendence. A safe and legal way to get high.

[foldedpath]

"Music is not a competition!"

I think Pete Seeger said this.

But playing music sometimes is.

It shouldn't be, and some genres it is more prevalent than others, but two mandolins at a jam is often like two sail boats on the lake.

Or two samurai in the same valley. Or Clint Eastwood and Eli Wallach in the same movie.

Regarding competition...

The only times in my musical life where I've had a fairly rapid increase in ability, instead of the usual plateau of skill development, was when I suddenly found myself playing with musicians who were "better" than me, and I felt the urge to come up to their level.

I don't see it as quite the same as competition, but it's close. I seem to need that kind of drive to break out of a plateau, because I'm basically a lazy person and not good at pushing for improvement on my own.

I do enjoy purely social playing with friends too, but it's not the same adrenaline jolt that you get playing with someone at a higher level, trying to hang in there, and eventually getting in the same groove when playing.

[Timbofood]

I try to look at it as a learning experience rather than a competition.
I have felt a little like Lee VanCleef (dead as ten year old strings) after some jams,but, not that often.
Allen, you can be as insensitive as you bloody well feel like! I’m becomeing more curmudgeonly by the hour!

[Tim N]

This becomes clear in the light of procedural memory vs declarative memory. Its the procedural memory that does the playing because its the fastest and most reliable - but it gives no explanation, takes no commands and can't be rushed. Declarative memory, OTOH, is for the slow tedious thing we call "thinking", and despite being slow it's the one being impatient; it's like a turtle teaching an eagle how to fly: the more it is in control, the less progress is being made.
The best way is to just let procedural memory do what it's best at: learning by repetition and frequent failures, in its own good time.

So, Procedural memory is What's going on in the background - subconsciously? It's what's responsible for those moments of pleasant surprise when your plateau suddenly turns into a step? Yes, I get that absolutely. It's like learning to walk or swim. And presumably that means that once established, you never really forget how to do the thing, even though practice keeps you in form. If that's true, it's also very encouraging.
Sometimes I just wander around the house, noodling on the mando - looking out the window, or waiting for an egg to boil, for example, and I'll play something I'm learning, trying not to think about it too much, and also not looking at my fingering. I think that helps. And I learn everything by heart - by ear, so that I'm not bothered by music sheets, except in the initial stages, or if I need to check something. I'm still in the early stages really, but have been encouraged to experience the reality that my middle-aged brain has still got some room for expansion! :-)

[UsuallyPickin]

Well .... We are mostly in this mandolin playing thing for fun. There are some pros on the site and I appreciate that. But for the rest of us if we aren't having fun what are we doing? Spending time and money to do what..... not hang with our loved ones, go fishing, not travel? I play better than I ever have yet I will never play as well as I want to. So it goes..... R/

[~jrs~]

My first post Gentlemen, after reading this I see I am in good company.
Best/jrs

[Timbofood]

Usually,
I’ve been playing mandolin for a long time, and made tens of dollars!
I still stick the the “Doc Watson theorem”:
“Playing music is supposed to be fun, when it becomes work, I’ll stop!”

I took a couple of years off due to medical issues but, the hour it cleared up, I was right back at it!
And for the record, before I got married, I had more “dates” than the rest of the band!
Most likely due to my level of ridiculousness more than musical prowess.