Transposing Fiddle to Mandolin

[BarlyG]

If a score has been done for fiddle with Aeae tuning, can I transcribe it to a standard mandolin score, using the given staff notation ?

[Jim Broyles]

Why not? The notes are the notes. If it were tablature you'd have to make changes but a note doesn't care what string and fret it gets played on.

[HappyPickin]

I use the same pieces of music for fiddle, mandolin and tinwhistle so I say go for it.

[jesserules]

One thing to look out for:

Sometimes, when transcribing the sheet music version of a retuned fiddle piece, the writer will write it as if the instrument were in standard tuning. Fiddle players will put their fingers where they normally would to play the notes shown on the sheet music, but because of the retuning the notes will sound correctly for the retuned piece. It sounds complicated but is actually not uncommon, especially if the music is aimed at players who are used to playing from sheet music. Marion Thede's pioneering The Fiddle Book uses this method to show "how it's played" in addition to transcriptions that show "how it sounds".

[BarlyG]

Thanks fellas, A note is a note, says it all

[mandocrucian]

The most important thing one can do with putting/emultating fiddle (tuned standard or not) stuff onto mandolin is trying to replicate the bowings with hammer-ons, pull-offs, slides, and pick glides as much as you can. Articulation is what makes fiddle playing breathe so much more than mando.

Then comes doublestops and the neck positions required to play them. (you have to go 3rd position to play *[Bd]. [DG], on the two bottom strings, can be played with various fingerings - MI, RM, or PR but it all depends what comes before/after the doublestop as which is the best option.

* these are doublestops as notated in ABC code


Niles H

[Michael Neverisky]

While a note may be a note, fiddling is more about rhythm and patterns. A fiddler will alter the articulation of notes with slurs, ties, etc. to maintain the bowing pattern. These things and what Niles says makes the difference between playing a melody or propelling dancers... which is what good fiddling is about.

[Bruce Clausen]

If a score has been done for fiddle with Aeae tuning, can I transcribe it to a standard mandolin score, using the given staff notation ?

Confusing question. You're playing mandolin in standard tuning, right? If you can play the tune from the a-e-a-e violin notation and it sounds right, then there's no need to transcribe at all. If it sounds wrong, then read jesserules' post #4 carefully and make the necessary changes.

[wag1943]

Why not? The notes are the notes. If it were tablature you'd have to make changes but a note doesn't care what string and fret it gets played on.

I'm not sure what you mean by that ??

[John Kelly]

I'm not sure what you mean by that ??

What Jim is saying is that in standard notation the note is given its name by the position on the stave where that note appears. On the treble stave the five lines are named E, G, B, D and F and the four spaces between them are F, A, C and E. In the key of C Major (no sharps or flats in the key signature) a note placed on a particular line or space will always have the same name. When we use keys other than C Major then the note will take on a new name depending on the key - in G major which has 1 sharp (F#) the note on the first line will be F# and the other notes will remain as in C major.
In tab, which shows the fret position of a particular note, this position will be governed by what the open strings are tuned to. In standard mandolin tuning (G,D,A,E) the notes on the second fret will be A,E,B,F#, but if we change this tuning, say to G,D,A,D, the notes at the second fret would then be A,E,B,E. Referring to your fiddle tuning of A,E,A,E, those notes at the second fret would be B,F#,B,F#.
Hope this maybe makes things clearer for you.

[Jim Nollman]

I often play with fiddlers who open-tune their instruments for enhanced modal effect There's one effect in particular, which someone here has called "breathing" which is musically stunning when done right. It's not easy to do well. Tunes in open A, such as Grub Springs, Sandy Boys, Across the Sea, Abe's Retreat, Kitchen Girl, come to mind. Lately, a group of us have been playing a crooked tune in the key of G, called Old Billy Hell, which absolutely flies when the fiddler tunes openly.

I play mandolin along with these open-tuned fiddlers just fine while remaining in standard tuning. What sometimes works best when the tune starts chugging along, is to provide a double-stop counter-rhythm that, when done right in the groove, pushes the tune into overdrive. One observation which I admit is just my own opinion. So many purist old time mandolin players insist on using oval hole A Gibsons. I feel that jingle-jangle Gibson A sound actually makes it more difficult to concisely drive the "breathing" fiddlle syncopation. I prefer an F hole.

One of my favorite mandolin counter-rhythms comes straight out of 1920's New Orleans jazz rhythms, based on double stops that accent the two and the four, and sometimes break up the transitions with a Bo Diddley rhythm. Yes, I know, I know, that doesn't really explain it very well, but that's about as detailed as i can get without making a sound file.

Let me also add that this kind of fiddle/mandolin playing doesn't work optimally if executed as a duet. It's much more complete to add a guitar on the bottom, playing standard old time walking lines in the groove, that anticipate the chord changes.

[Tobin]

In tab, which shows the fret position of a particular note, this position will be governed by what the open strings are tuned to.

What makes it more confusing is that fiddle tab doesn't go by fret numbers (since they don't have frets). It shows the finger to be used. So for example where a mandolinist might expect a C natural on the G string to be tabbed as a 5, a fiddle tab will show it as a 3. Very confusing if you're not used to it!