Northfields

[pheffernan]

I haven't made any decisions regarding brands yet. Trying to get it sorted and research as well I can before I buy. Got it narrowed down to: Collings, Silverangel, Girouard, and maybe Weber or Pava, just depends on whatever deals I find. Of the vids I have watched and files I have listened to I do prefer the sound of Collings, but I like supporting smaller luthiers. It's a toss up. I am pretty broke so whatever I get is likely to be it for me. Lotta pressure to get that purchase right.

I found myself in the same position, including geographically, a few years ago. My solution to the dilemma was to buy used. Since the depreciation had already been taken out, I was able to sample a number of instruments, including several on your list -- a Collings, Pava, and Silverangel among others -- and then sell them at no loss except for perhaps PayPal and shipping fees. In some cases, I even came out ahead. The most important benefit, however, was the education that I received for that small tuition. Quite simply, you can watch all the vids you want and listen to all the files you can find, but it's hard to get that purchase right without assessing the most important factor that you cannot judge from afar: how the instrument feels in your hands. You can only learn that lesson by playing them.

[bigskygirl]

Firstly, no they are not Chinese imports and by now you have had time to read the threads here about them.

Secondly, although you said everyone says don’t buy sight unseen a lot of us here disagree. I ordered my master model (replaced by Artist Series) sight unseen almost 3 years ago now and love it more and more. It’s well made and a great value. I know tone is subjective but there are tons of videos of the NF artists playing them and it’s less than a Collings, Heiden, Weber, and others in the same class.

The F5S models are also excellent and I would have gotten one of those if one had been available to purchase. They pop up in the classifieds here and hold their resale value so you’ll get most if not all your money back.

Continue to check out the threads here especially the ones posted in the review section. And call Northfield and speak with Peter, Derek, or maybe even Adrian. They are all great guys and love to talk mandos.

Good luck and try not to over analyze. Any of the mandos being discussed will be good ones and you can always sell or trade later. Have fun!

[Br1ck]

Why not embrace the Northfield business model rather than deny it? With the exception of the model M, they are most certainly mostly the product of a team assembled in China to build really good instruments. I look forward to the day that a Chinese character can be inlayed into the headstock as a recognition of the fine craftsmanship of this international team.

My daughter played a Chinese viola for ten years. It absolutely destroyed the competition that was up to twice the price, and that was in the $5000-10,000 range.

[Luna Pick]

What Bri1ck, BIgSkyGirl, and others have said. . .

I've purchased most of my mandolins, and both my banjos, sight unseen, and it has worked out well.

Fine craftsmanship is fine craftsmanship, regardless where the craftsperson sleeps.

[Alex Orr]

I played a Big Mon model last summer and was honestly blown away. I really didn't expect much but was shocked by how good it was. Maybe it was just a particularly good one, but ever since then I've routinely said that if anything truly horrible happened to my Brentrup, I'd consider replacing it with a Northfield (or a Sumi) while I saved up the money to buy another Brentrup. FWIW, I've played a Pava and was not that impressed, and I've never heard a Silverangel that did much for me. I've played maybe a half dozen Webers and while some sounded fantastic some just didn't sound all that great. I would never buy a Weber without spending some time playing it first. I'd love to play a Girouard sometime though - I follow him of FB and Instagram and the guy's mandolins are just insanely beautiful. Some of the backs on his mandolins are so quilty that they seem like they're moving!

[Johnny60]

Bought my Northfield F5S at the late-lamented Music Room in Cleckheaton. They had 4 F5S's in stock on the day, plus an A style. I would have been happy with any one of them, but there was something special about the tone of the one I bought - it "spoke to me".

I used to own an Eastman 505 and although it was a very nice mandolin, there's no comparison in terms of the fit and finish and the sound. Nothing wrong with the Eastman, except that the fretboard and neck were too narrow for my liking. But the Northfield is in a different league. Love it.

[sblock]

I haven't made any decisions regarding brands yet. Trying to get it sorted and research as well I can before I buy. Got it narrowed down to: Collings, Silverangel, Girouard, and maybe Weber or Pava, just depends on whatever deals I find. Of the vids I have watched and files I have listened to I do prefer the sound of Collings, but I like supporting smaller luthiers. It's a toss up. I am pretty broke so whatever I get is likely to be it for me. Lotta pressure to get that purchase right.

How you liking your Silverangel, btw?

Say, didn't you start this thread by asking us about Northfields? Given all the positive responses, why did you apparently drop them from consideration I wonder? Also, the mandolins on your narrowed-down list tend to sound very different (a Pava does not sound much like a Weber, which does not sound much like a Collings). So what criteria are you using to narrow this list, I'm curious to learn?

[Em Tee]

My criteria is primarily American made and in my price range. I asked about Northfields not because I was necessarily considering one but because I was curious about them. Couldn't figure why they cost so much more than other chinese made mandolins; now I know! They are American/Chinese.

Since I don't have the ability to play these mandos in person I can't say much for sound outside of what I hear on the internet. So far I've liked the Collings I have heard best, but Pava and Weber make excellent mandolins and if I found a good deal on any of them I don't think I'd be making an unwise choice picking one up. As for the Girouards, they are beautiful looking mandolins, sound great from the clips I have heard, and from a small American luthier. Wish I could get my hands on one to play because they tick off all my preference points.

I guess what it boils down to is where I spend my money is as important to me as what I spend my money on.

[Toycona]

While on the way to Swannanoa, I spend a lot of time at Gruhns and Carters (like 10 hours total). I was lucky enough to play a really wide variety of instruments, many mentioned in this thread. At Swannanoa, Northfield had a booth there all week, and I played all of their demo instruments multiple times, including their killer OM. I do think they are a really good value for the money. The Silverangel at Gruhns was fun to play, and a couple of dozen at Carters could have made it home in my loving care, if I could have afforded it. There are lots and lots of good choices out there...if possible, play as many different mandos and put your ears to the test. For example, I loved the Duff dola more than the Kimble dola, both at Carters. Yet when I did a blind side by side (with my buddy playing the same song on both), I instantly knew that the Kimble was the best in show, at least that day.

If I were choosing a new F style, I'd certainly consider a Northfield, among several others, including, but not limited to Gibson, Girouard, Collings, and Pava.

I guess my point is...have fun playing as many different mandolins...get to know the differing attributes, tones, etc. Think big and dream.

[Em Tee]

I guess my point is...have fun playing as many different mandolins...get to know the differing attributes, tones, etc. Think big and dream.[/QUOTE]

I would love to, but the closest mandolin shop with any kind of selection is a 9+ hour drive away. I live at the tip of a very large peninsula, and don't have the money to take trips to Tennessee or Austin or Oregon any time soon. I rely on mando cafe and youtube for brand testing, it is what it is and I'm plenty grateful for y'alls thorough reviews here at the cafe!

I actually prefer A styles. I feel like an anomaly on that one. Lol

[Charlieshafer]

The one thing that's not been mentioned here is how Mike marshall is working with Northfield on the master models. Mike's goal is to get that, at 6k, to be as good as anything being made anywhere today, at any price. He brought one of the prototypes to his show with us a couple of weeks ago, and alternated between that and his Loar, with no difference in how they sounded in the audience.

[sblock]

My criteria is primarily American made and in my price range. I asked about Northfields not because I was necessarily considering one but because I was curious about them. Couldn't figure why they cost so much more than other chinese made mandolins; now I know! They are American/Chinese.
...
I guess what it boils down to is where I spend my money is as important to me as what I spend my money on.

It's clear to me that you have a rather limited grasp of today's global economy. A portion of the money spent on any Collings, Weber, Pava, etc. flows overseas (for example, paying for their tuners, for the finish, for raw materials -- including any ebony and rosewood). And the Northfield effort is largely run out of Michigan -- where it pays U.S. taxes!

Do you own a cell phone? A TV set? Did you go out of your way "buy domestic" for those purchases? How about your car? The chances are pretty good that large parts of the car were not manufactured in the U.S., even if it's from a U.S.-based manufacturer.

That's just the way it is! Plus, it's not going to change anytime soon.

My advice would be to buy the best mandolin that suits your musical tastes and pocketbook, not the best "U.S." mandolin -- whatever that means!

[Em Tee]

The one thing that's not been mentioned here is how Mike marshall is working with Northfield on the master models. Mike's goal is to get that, at 6k, to be as good as anything being made anywhere today, at any price. He brought one of the prototypes to his show with us a couple of weeks ago, and alternated between that and his Loar, with no difference in how they sounded in the audience.

6k is unfortunately way out of my price range. Mine is around 2500.

[Mandobar]

If you want an F5 style then Northfield is the best option. In an A, you can probably find a used MT2 or Pava A.

[Beanzy]

EmTee & others asking for US builds may just want to make sure an american luthier has another sale of something they built there, maybe to keep a skilled fellow national in work & paying taxes into the local economy.
There are those who would feel that adds an intangible value to their purchace, a bit of feel-good glow when they open the case. But it’s only going to work if the premium isn’t so high it is off-putting.
In pre WTO days it used to be pretty common to see govt funded campaigns to buy local as an attempt to shore up locak skill bases and market sectors.
I don’t think it can be directly state funded anymore, but many still have local as a core criterium when making a big purchase.
It’s just dependent on what factors are important enough to be worth adding a premium when already stumping up a big wad of cash. Not really right or wrong so much as a matter of being prepared to stump up to help keep the luthiers in the trade. But if it get’s beyond a certain % you’ve got to think again. It reminds me a bit like when people used to buy British Leyland cars, long after they were being spanked by the Toyotas & BMWs. Eventually something had to give. But it’s less so if the design renewal & development isn’t so fast paced

[Loubrava]

6k is unfortunately way out of my price range. Mine is around 2500.

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but here's my $.02
I say if you want USA made mandolin than go for it ! Lots of fine small shop builders here and there building very nice mandolins with great reviews even in your price range. Major draw back is you may have a wait if you order one. Big plus is you can do some custom things like nut width, fret boards, fret wire & even colors without adding too much to base price. I was Nashville last week and played a Ratliff that sounded as good as any 6K mando they had in the shop I was pleasantly surprised as I'm waiting for Ratliff to finish mine. I put a deposit down having never held a Ratliff but read good things about him. I wanted to support a small shop but not give up quality or tone and judging by the one I played I made a great choice. My budget was 2K but I added a few upgrades so I'll probably be 2.3K shipped with hard case. http://www.ratliffmandolins.com/
Good Luckin your search

[Stevo75]

I have a Northfield F5S and a Summit A-200 (paul Schneider / American made). I bought both of them used. I think I paid $1600 for the Summit and $1750 for the Northfield. They’re both great instruments! I bought the Northfield on the classifieds here based on pictures, a sound clip, and the fact that every Northfield F5S I have played (maybe 5-10) has sounded great and played like butter.

I have played a Big Mon and didn’t like it as much. But it was Englemann Spruce and I tend to like Adirondack Spruce better. But that’s a personal preference.

[Ivan Kelsall]

If anybody on has any doubts about the Chinese to produce 'superior' anythings, read this article :- http://www.core77.com/posts/67922/Th...rthquake-Proof

I watched a UK TV program about constructing 'earthquake proof' buidings - the Chinese did it 2,500 years ago using a joint called a 'Dougong'. In the TV programme,a wooden house using the joints which simply lock together - no nails / pegs/ glue etc. was subjected to an ''earthquake simulation'' way above the worst that we've actually ever experienced & it came through totally intact.
My point is that there still seems to be a residual doubt in folk's minds regarding the quality of ''Chinese built instruments'',i can understand that - but !. Given the 1,000s of years of heritage of incredible craftsmanship,to doubt that the Chinese can't 'build' as good as anybody is wrong (IMHO). I can honestly say that if i was looking for my first top quality mandolin,the Northfields would be at the top of my list,& if i found one that i really liked,i'd buy it without hesitation. They've set a benchmark for all other 'foreign' built mandolins, again,IMHO,
Ivan

[Em Tee]

I'd rather support an American luthier, if I can help it.

As for people talking up the Chinese; I am Chinese-American.

Like I said, I'd rather support an American luthier. I'd rather support small luthiers in this country and help the trade survive here.

We don't have to agree.

Thank you for the information on Northfields. I have no doubt they are beautiful instruments.

[Toycona]

I'd rather support an American luthier, if I can help it... 6k is unfortunately way out of my price range. Mine is around 2500.

At 2.5K you cannot go wrong with a Girouard, Pava, or Collings..all American made. I own a Girouard and love it, and I have played several Pavas and Collings. They are great also. It does come down to personal taste. As for 'play before you pay', that's a really good way to go...play as many instruments as you can get your hands on. That said, I read your previous post about not being near some of the larger and more varied string stores. For what it's worth, I bought both of my instruments based largely on my gut instinct. I commissioned them both and explained to both builders what I wanted in terms of tone, playability, fit, and finish. And essentially I got what I asked for. I definitely had a better sense of what I was looking for the second time around and was able to describe in more detail the elements that had become important to me. So if this how it might be for you, think about how you'd describe to a luthier what exactly you're looking for in that regard. Neck profile and radius/flat fingerboard is an important and sometimes overlooked detail, for example.

Hope this helps!

[sblock]

I'd rather support an American luthier, if I can help it.

As for people talking up the Chinese; I am Chinese-American.

Like I said, I'd rather support an American luthier. I'd rather support small luthiers in this country and help the trade survive here.

We don't have to agree.

Thank you for the information on Northfields. I have no doubt they are beautiful instruments.

I have to say, given your expressed desire to support an American luthier, to the exclusion of any others -- including ignoring any offerings from Northfield, which is partly made in the U.S. and does contribute directly to our economy -- it leads me to wonder why you titled this thread "Northfields" and asked the question about Northfields in the first place. It strikes me that your mind had pretty much been made up beforehand, and it was against Northfield -- and it was for being partly made in China, and not for sounding bad. That being the case, were you merely trying to encourage debate here, or to stir up controversy? It's hard to understand what your motives are.

Of course, Collings and Weber and Pava and Girouard and Ratliff all make fine mandolins, as others has attested, and you would not be wrong to get one of these, if it matches your taste and pocketbook. But why the digression into Northfield, if it was never a candidate, and you were pretty much wasting everyone's time with this inquiry?

Next time, a better title for the thread might be "seeking mandolin from an American luthier, $2000 range." That seems closer to what your inquiry is truly about.

[JeffD]

so whatever I get is likely to be it for me. Lotta pressure to get that purchase right.

All the comments in this thread, whether I agree or not, make a lot of sense to me, with the exception of this one.

I don't think the differences between the mandolins you are considering are so gigantic that you have to worry about a mis-step. What ever you chose you will have an over the top excellent mandolin that has everything you need to make you happy for ever. Your preferences are important sure, but when choosing between "really great", "excellent", and "wow", I can't see that you will go wrong.

And, you sound like an intelligent, articulate, thoughtful person, your situation is very likely to change, at which point you will be getting a second mandolin, (yea like you won't ) and that is no matter what you buy now.

Enjoy the process. But put the pressure in context, we are not choosing between treatments for a progressively debilitating health issue. (Thank goodness.)

[Em Tee]

I have to say, given your expressed desire to support an American luthier, to the exclusion of any others -- including ignoring any offerings from Northfield, which is partly made in the U.S. and does contribute directly to our economy -- it leads me to wonder why you titled this thread "Northfields" and asked the question about Northfields in the first place. It strikes me that your mind had pretty much been made up beforehand, and it was against Northfield -- and it was for being partly made in China, and not for sounding bad. That being the case, were you merely trying to encourage debate here, or to stir up controversy? It's hard to understand what your motives are.

Of course, Collings and Weber and Pava and Girouard and Ratliff all make fine mandolins, as others has attested, and you would not be wrong to get one of these, if it matches your taste and pocketbook. But why the digression into Northfield, if it was never a candidate, and you were pretty much wasting everyone's time with this inquiry?

Next time, a better title for the thread might be "seeking mandolin from an American luthier, $2000 range." That seems closer to what your inquiry is truly about.

I was not trying to stir up controversy. I was just curious about Northfields and why they were so expensive when other chinese made brands were considerably cheaper. And this thread has been very enlightening on the subject, so thank you for that. The conversation evolved in the thread, as conversation typically does, and went astray from the original topic. It happens. My preference to buy from an American luthier takes nothing away from anyone's choices. Beyond that, I dunno what to tell ya.

[Br1ck]

I can understand wanting to buy from an American luthier. With an A style and your budget, the world is your oyster.

Not being able to try first is both good and bad, bad because you can't try them all and decide, good because in a vacuumed, any of them will more than likely please you.

Bought my Silverangel before I tried many other good mandolins. Still happy. It is its own flavor due to the redwood top and top x bracing.