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Thread: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

  1. #1

    Default More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    I wonder how this bad PR will impact them overall as a company?

    (I honestly think this guy sounds like selfish, entitled pissbaby, but what do I know? -Em)

    https://www.gearnews.com/gibson-arti...ing-dont-care/



    Bill Kelliher of Mastodon reveals why he left Gibson – and it ain’t pretty

    Last week, various online sources published a quote by guitarist Bill Kelliher. In it he explains why he ended his endorsement relationship with Gibson. Kelliher levels a number of serious accusations at his former endorsee. With Gibson recently facing criticism of its management, design choices and quality control, this latest PR disaster will be exactly what the company was hoping to avoid.

    The quotes, which I’ve copied below, originated on the Ultimate Guitar website. Kelliher pulls no punches about Gibson and his relationship with the company. He goes on to contrast his negative experiences with his new relationship with Japanese guitar maker ESP.


    Here’s what BK had to say about why he left Gibson:

    “It was a lot of reasons.

    “I never really felt like I was accepted at Gibson. The communication over there is terrible.

    “They kept f&$king up my guitars that I was asking for. I didn’t ask for a lot – I just had a few certain things that I would like with my guitar – I told them I didn’t want it chambered and they made my second guitar chambered.

    “All the guys I worked with over there – the A&R guys were getting fired left and right and the company just seemed to be falling apart to me. There were new guys who would come in and they didn’t know sh%t.

    “It was a breath of fresh air working with ESP. They were interested and would ask me what gauge strings I played and what tunings I play – Gibson never cared about any of that stuff.

    “Kids would get my guitar in the mail and ask me how to tune it because it wasn’t tuned and then I would tell them how to tune it and they would say it still doesn’t sound right and it’s because they’re not putting my gauge strings on there.

    “They weren’t even tuning the guitars to my settings or specifications – just little things like that. Things that make the guitar a Bill Kelliher model, like put it in my tuning so that when it shows up, it’s different.

    “ESP wanted to know all that stuff. They’re just friendly and nice and they’re interested in me and my band and what they can do for me rather than this company.

    “Gibson just wasn’t… I don’t know, I think they’re on their way downhill honestly.

    “Every guy I talk to – I mean, look at James Hetfield. He was at Gibson, played Gibson stuff and they didn’t want to work with him, so he went to ESP. And he’s one of the biggest f%$king guitar players in our kind of music.

    “It seems like there are a lot of bad decisions being made over there.

    “But ESP is really great. They treat me really well. I love my Sparrowhawk that I designed. It’s the best playing guitar that I own.”


    We wrote Kelliher’s move to ESP back in January this year when the ESP LTD Sparrowhawk was announced. Gibson, I’m sure, were not pleased with the Mastodon guitarist’s decision. Considering that Bill Kelliher had two Gibson signature models with Gibson, the Bill Kelliher Golden AxeExplorer and the Halcyon Les Paulmodel, it must have been quite a blow to Gibson. After all, he plays in one of the world’s biggest bands in this genre.

  2. #2

    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    My question is, if their electric guitar division tanks, what does that mean for their mandolin division?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    The electric guitar division is the biggest division, by far. If that tanks, it will drag everything else with it, IMHO.
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    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    Quote Originally Posted by Em Tee View Post
    My question is, if their electric guitar division tanks, what does that mean for their mandolin division?
    In an ideal world, a wealthy philanthropist and lover of American music (hello, Paul Allen?) steps in, buys out the mandolin division and rights to the name. Then he sets it up as a small shop operation like Collings. Life goes on, people don't lose their jobs, and musicians can still buy quality mandolins with Gibson on the headstock.

    Back in the real world, who knows? The CEO seems more interested in developing auto-tuning gadgets, so maybe he'd let the mandolin division go. Otherwise it could just die of neglect. Remember, this is the company that bought the Dobro trademark for resonator guitars, and then let that division die of neglect. Same thing happened with the famous Echoplex looper after Gibson bought Oberheim. They have a history of just letting things wither on the vine.

  5. #5

    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    Quote Originally Posted by foldedpath View Post
    In an ideal world, a wealthy philanthropist and lover of American music (hello, Paul Allen?) steps in, buys out the mandolin division and rights to the name. Then he sets it up as a small shop operation like Collings. Life goes on, people don't lose their jobs, and musicians can still buy quality mandolins with Gibson on the headstock.

    Back in the real world, who knows? The CEO seems more interested in developing auto-tuning gadgets, so maybe he'd let the mandolin division go. Otherwise it could just die of neglect. Remember, this is the company that bought the Dobro trademark for resonator guitars, and then let that division die of neglect. Same thing happened with the famous Echoplex looper after Gibson bought Oberheim. They have a history of just letting things wither on the vine.
    That's just sad. Guess I better save my pennies and get a gibson before the guitar division sinks the whole company.

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    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    Just imagine what Gibson mandolins will sell for when they aren't made anymore...
    Or maybe Two Old Hippies will buy the Mandolin division and offshore the production.

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  8. #7

    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    I have a Gibson amplifier. Really, it's a Trace Elliott Velocette. Trace is another of the many companies Gibson bought and ignored to death.

    I think those at Gibson making mandolins will still make mandolins weather or not there is Gibson on the headstock or not. More likely not as individuals rarely have the money necessary to buy the name. I'm confident someone will make mandolins with the sound we know and love.
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  9. #8

    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    Quote Originally Posted by Em Tee View Post
    That's just sad. Guess I better save my pennies and get a gibson before the guitar division sinks the whole company.
    I think there will be enough nice used Gibsons to last for the next hundred or two hundred years...........

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    Middle-Aged Old-Timer Tobin's Avatar
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    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    Quote Originally Posted by foldedpath View Post
    Back in the real world, who knows? The CEO seems more interested in developing auto-tuning gadgets, so maybe he'd let the mandolin division go. Otherwise it could just die of neglect. Remember, this is the company that bought the Dobro trademark for resonator guitars, and then let that division die of neglect. Same thing happened with the famous Echoplex looper after Gibson bought Oberheim. They have a history of just letting things wither on the vine.
    Like banjos! That one still baffles me. It's like Ford Motor Company deciding it's no longer going to make passenger vehicles so it can focus on pickup trucks, since they sell more trucks. I mean, I get that it makes sense to put your focus on what sells the most and what can be most profitable. But abandoning iconic product lines in the process would seem to suggest that they have lost their vision, sense of identity, and long-term strategy.
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  12. #10

    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    Quote Originally Posted by Em Tee View Post
    That's just sad. Guess I better save my pennies and get a gibson before the guitar division sinks the whole company.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Mando View Post
    I think there will be enough nice used Gibsons to last for the next hundred or two hundred years...........
    Yes, but how much will they cost? I work at a non-profit. I save literal pennies for my mandolin purchases. lol

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    The brand name is still iconic and the cafe will still be having these same discussions in ten years as they were having them ten years ago. I don't understand why Henry does what he does and neither does anyone else. It is what it is. I have owned a few Gibson guitars over the years, acoustic and electric, I own a Gibson mandolin, I owned a Gibson banjo. Gibson isn't going away as a company any time soon but they will continue to change.
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    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    Quote Originally Posted by Em Tee View Post
    My question is, if their electric guitar division tanks, what does that mean for their mandolin division?
    Quote Originally Posted by multidon View Post
    The electric guitar division is the biggest division, by far. If that tanks, it will drag everything else with it, IMHO.
    The company that makes (and sells) all those Les Pauls and SGs ain't tanking any time soon.

  15. #13

    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    Quote Originally Posted by Em Tee View Post
    Yes, but how much will they cost? I work at a non-profit. I save literal pennies for my mandolin purchases. lol
    It might be relative to the investment, long term. That is, my main electric guitar a 1968 Gibson ES-330 which I bought for $800 about 25 years ago when I worked for a vintage guitar shop. I couldn't afford it, but my employer let me buy it on time, which was a hardship, but I wanted the guitar. Now, I see 'em on eBay for $2500-3500 so I'm glad I took the plunge. I still have the guitar and still enjoy it every time I play it.

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    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    True story. A friend took over a small music store and was checking out the inventory. Picked up a brand-new A5L Gibson and tried to play it up the neck, but something was screwy. Upon closer inspection, Gibson had installed the 12th fret markers at the 13th fret. When he called Gibson to ask how he could ship it back to be repaired, Gibson told him just to sell it as-is. Wow.

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    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Mando View Post
    It might be relative to the investment, long term. That is, my main electric guitar a 1968 Gibson ES-330 which I bought for $800 about 25 years ago when I worked for a vintage guitar shop. I couldn't afford it, but my employer let me buy it on time, which was a hardship, but I wanted the guitar. Now, I see 'em on eBay for $2500-3500 so I'm glad I took the plunge. I still have the guitar and still enjoy it every time I play it.
    They don't make 'em like those anymore...

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    No. Not mine. But had an opportunity to take it for a test drive this weekend. Really, really sweet.

  18. #16

    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    Laugh all you want, but TOH and Peavey are both standing in the wings waiting to take over. The name still has some real value.
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    Gummy Bears and Scotch BrianWilliam's Avatar
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    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_al View Post
    Or maybe Two Old Hippies will buy the Mandolin division and offshore the production.
    Ha!

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    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    Remember, Gibson has many product lines; this Gibson Brands page shows 17, though some, like Dobro, appear to be defunct, or at least quiescent.

    While I'm not familiar with Mr. Kelliher or Mastodon, there are many many teen guitar heroes who still want a Les Paul, whether made by Gibson or Epiphone. The company's lasted over a century, through the ups and downs of stringed instrument fads -- remember, it was called "The Gibson Mandolin-Guitar Company" 'way back when.

    It may be going through a lean period, and I think Henry J has made some odd business moves, but predicting its demise seems a bit premature, IMHO.
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    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    Thanks allenhopkins for the Gibson Brands link. Who knew. The company is like a giant ocean liner. I have Gibson guitars and mandolins that I'm proud of but not all. The bigger you get the harder you fall. I had a problem with one of my Gibson mandolins, when I got it home I noticed the pearl fret marker dot at the 12th fret was partially under the 12th fret and I sent it back for exchange. They told me over the phone it was a CNC machine problem they were having with the fret markers, but they did send me a new one that was nicer.
    Last edited by Hudmister; Oct-24-2017 at 10:27am.

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  24. #20
    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    Quote Originally Posted by allenhopkins View Post
    It may be going through a lean period, and I think Henry J has made some odd business moves, but predicting its demise seems a bit premature, IMHO.
    It seems to be more than just a lean period, according to the article linked in the other thread about moving the factory: "Gibson Guitar May Default if Company Can't Refinance Its Debt".

    $520 million in debt with the note due next summer sounds pretty serious. They're selling the factory site for $17 million, but that's a drop in the bucket with that kind of debt, and it looks like they're having trouble getting refinanced.

    If Gibson defaults, it won't exactly be a demise. The divisions will probably be broken up into separate entities under different holding companies, with the more profitable ones surviving. Let's hope the mandolin division is profitable.

    According to that article, Fender is in trouble too, and likely for the same reasons: a steep decline in electric guitar sales, and a general downturn in the music industry. Fender is nowhere near as highly leveraged as Gibson though.

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    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    Does all this go back to the flood?
    Also, I understand any shop that wants to be a Gibson dealer must invest quite a lot in initial inventory etc. Only large stores seem to be able to handle it. Is Gibson going the way of Sears etc?
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    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    It goes back before the flood.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    It goes back before the flood.
    Yeah, just read between the lines on the Gibson Wiki page, and you'll get a sense of what's afoot...

    Probably one of the most telling sentences is this one:

    "Gibson is a privately held corporation owned by its chief executive officer Henry Juszkiewicz and its president David H. Berryman."

    'Nuff said...

  28. #24
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    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    It goes back to the days when they and others sold major shares to private investment firms. Sadly, their M.O. is to load the company with debt, take the cash, and then part the remaining skeleton out. Hopefully that doesn't happen here in an extreme sense, and that the acoustic instruments survive.

    Henry and David may "own" it, but the strings are controlled by the venture capitalists. It's very difficult to rack up that much debt unless you're intentionally sucking the company dry. No one would lend against those levels. Being privately held, there's no having to answer to shareholders, it's just a cow to be milked.

  29. #25

    Default Re: More Bad News/Press for Gibson's Electric Guitar Division

    If they do tank maybe Heritage will rent them some space on Parson's St.

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