Mandolin with Preston tuners?

[Seter]

Came across this old mandolin in my eBay perusings and thought it was interesting enough to share, NFI. Has anyone seen one like this before?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-8-S...gAAOSwovFZ384T

[Tavy]

It's Portuguese, but looks rather roughly made to me!

[Jim Garber]

It is also missing the tuning knob and stem on the upper e-string. It might be difficult to find that part or replacement tuners that fit, assuming you wanted to play it.

[LadysSolo]

I agree with roughly made, but it is interesting-looking!

[Jim Garber]

You don't see many Portuguese 8 string mandolins. Mostly you see the guitarras which are 12 strings longer scale.

That one I would guess would be a tourist model, not a high quality one.

[allenhopkins]

...That one I would guess would be a tourist model, not a high quality one.

Pity the "tourist" who tried to find double-loop strings for it.

[Seter]

What were the advantages of Preston tuners? Maybe a lighter/smaller headstock for instruments with a proliferation of strings?

[allenhopkins]

What were the advantages of Preston tuners? Maybe a lighter/smaller headstock for instruments with a proliferation of strings?

No advantages I can see. You need strings with a loop at each end; you can get a device to twist a loop into regular mandolin strings, but why go to that trouble? These tuners are found on Portuguese guitars, and they're the traditional hardware, but as we can see, the concept hasn't been adopted anywhere else.

[ollaimh]

What were the advantages of Preston tuners? Maybe a lighter/smaller headstock for instruments with a proliferation of strings?

you're right, they are lighter, plus when they were introduced there were no other tuners but pegs. moreover they standard industrial strings(and in portugual many still do) so they were used to making double loops. i have played portuguese guitarra a bit, especially when in toronto and i knew some portuguese musicians. i got used to the double loops. i have a string winder now but then i used a nail and a pair of plyers. not as pretty but they worked.

that mandolin looks bad as others have said. i have seen one or two high quality ones on e bay go cheap but i am not into that anymore. high quality guitarras are rare now. ten years ago good guitarras occasionally showed up cheap. i still have a cute little 1913 viera. a quality working class instrument from the old port where the they were played in the fado music. amongst the hash dens the drunks and the hoods. fado was a very working class tradition untill recently. they call it the postuguese blues.

[tonydxn]

For interest, here's a photo of my Portuguese mandolin, made by Antonio Pereira Cabral.

They have a longer scale length than normal (mine is 370mm) which means they need very light guage strings. It gives them a nice clear ringing tone, which I like, though I don't play much.

[ollaimh]

For interest, here's a photo of my Portuguese mandolin, made by Antonio Pereira Cabral.

They have a longer scale length than normal (mine is 370mm) which means they need very light guage strings. It gives them a nice clear ringing tone, which I like, though I don't play much.

that looks like a very nice one. cabral was well know as a good luthier. does he still produce instruments?

[tonydxn]

It is a nice one - back and sides look like walnut. There is no date in it, but it's old - maybe about 100 years, or more. It must be a long time since Cabral passed on to the great workshop in the sky.

[des]

What were the advantages of Preston tuners? Maybe a lighter/smaller headstock for instruments with a proliferation of strings?

I've often wondered if there was any connection between the tuners and the remarkable loudness, sustain and sweetness of the Portuguese guitar - the tuners and the sound are after all the two most distinctive attributes of the instrument.

I can't for the life of me see the "how" - why the tuners should make such a difference - indeed any difference at all. Is it just down to the body shape , sound hole size and position? - also distinctive but nothing like as distinctive as the tuners and the sound. I take the comments about lighter strings but they don't seem intrinsic to the design (I'm open to correction). I would associate light strings with a totally different sound quality - bowl backs, Selmer Maccaferri guitars.

Thomann have something very similar for sale at the moment new for €202 (!). Judging by the sound samples on their website sustain is pretty good for a mandolin - especially at such a price,

[tonydxn]

I think it's the combination of light strings and longer string length. (edit: sorry Des - just realized you're talking about the Portuguese guitar)

[Marty Jacobson]

This style of tuning machine is very reliable. My Bohm Waldzither with Preston-style tuners can sit there for months and stay perfectly in tune. Or maybe it's because the Bohm is built like a rowboat. :-)

[des]

I think it's the combination of light strings and longer string length.

I'm not disagreeing - it makes sense - but I am puzzled. I suppose I associate all that with a more twangy, hollow sort of sound. I know the terminology is so difficult - I mean hollow as in lots of bass, lots of treble, not much in the way of mids - as in Duane Eddy. The sound of heavier strings is - sorry for the ad man speak (try looking at saxophone mouthpieces) - "punchy", "focussed", "strong mids" - as in Wes Montgomery. The miracle of the Portuguese guitar - to my ears - seems to be that it puts the sustain of the first together with the sweetness and projection of the second.

When I hear that Fado sound I imagine that the players have thimbles on their fingers.

edit Sorry Tonydxn - my fault - we're slightly at cross purposes

[des]

This style of tuning machine is very reliable. My Bohm Waldzither with Preston-style tuners can sit there for months and stay perfectly in tune. Or maybe it's because the Bohm is built like a rowboat. :-)

Does that mean it could wear - does wear - heavy strings ? I'd love to know what it is that makes Portuguese guitars sound the way they do.

[tonydxn]

Body size, shape and strutting all play a part; also the woods used. The traditional wood for Portuguese guitars is black poplar - a wood which I don't think is much used by anyone else for anything else. It's softer and lighter than other woods used for backs and sides. I don't think it's much used nowadays though, and I don't know if modern instruments made with harder, heavier woods also have the sound you are referring to.

I believe fado players wear picks on their fingers - a bit like a false nail.

[ollaimh]

there's an ok looking portuguese mandolin on ebay right now starting at 127 canadian dollars. the label says lisboa, which is likely a lot better quality than than the one posted here, action is hard to see but form a few angles looks oj. will need cleaning up, but if you want to try a lisboa mandolin cheap this is a decent gamble

[Jim Garber]

there's an ok looking portuguese mandolin on ebay right now starting at 127 canadian dollars. the label says lisboa, which is likely a lot better quality than than the one posted here, action is hard to see but form a few angles looks oj. will need cleaning up, but if you want to try a lisboa mandolin cheap this is a decent gamble

It always helps to post a link rather then make us all work to find what you are talking about. Thanks!

[ollaimh]

It always helps to post a link rather then make us all work to find what you are talking about. Thanks!

i don't know how to post a link but search ebay auctions only mandolins and there it is.

[Bill Kammerzell]

It always helps to post a link rather then make us all work to find what you are talking about. Thanks!

I kind of get a sense of accomplishment poking blindly around the internet, and discovering new stuff. Sometimes I even find what I'm looking for.

[Bill Kammerzell]

you're right, they are lighter, plus when they were introduced there were no other tuners but pegs. moreover they standard industrial strings(and in portugual many still do) so they were used to making double loops. i have played portuguese guitarra a bit, especially when in toronto and i knew some portuguese musicians. i got used to the double loops. i have a string winder now but then i used a nail and a pair of plyers. not as pretty but they worked.

that mandolin looks bad as others have said. i have seen one or two high quality ones on e bay go cheap but i am not into that anymore. high quality guitarras are rare now. ten years ago good guitarras occasionally showed up cheap. i still have a cute little 1913 viera. a quality working class instrument from the old port where the they were played in the fado music. amongst the hash dens the drunks and the hoods. fado was a very working class tradition untill recently. they call it the postuguese blues.

Charley Musslewhite spent a lot of time in Brazil over the years. Saw him some years back at the Rams Head Tavern in Annapolis MD. He talked about Fado down in Brazil and even did a couple of numbers. First time I heard of it.
Here's a description of an album he did called Continental Drifter. Strong Cuban/Brazilian influence mixed with American Blues.
Charlie Musselwhite's is the voice of experience. One can hear it on every note of Continental Drifter, where the relaxed feel of the experienced bluesman is evident in the main harmonica riff of "Little Star" and the smooth, Delta-style guitar of "Blues Up the River." Several of the songs have a strong Cuban-Brazilian feel, and Musselwhite is joined on several of these by friend Eliades Ochoa and his band, Cuarteto Patria. Musselwhite's primarily known as a harmonica player, and it's easy to hear why on this album; whether he's spicing up the Cuban-blues mix of "Sabroso" or soloing over the jumpy rhythm of "Can't Stay Away from You," he's always bang on the note. --Genevieve Williams