Question on applying a one color stain.

[Dan Douris]

Hi all,

I will be stringing this up today for a rough set up and to clean up the F holes. I'll will then be played by a customer in the white so if any neck feel adjustments need to be made. When those ajustments are made, all the hardwasre comes off, and then final sand the entire instrument. Now this customer wants it all one color (sheridan brown) like his Gibson A2. I have only done sunbusts so far and have never applied one color and wonder if anyone here has applied one color by hand. I do not have the ability to spray color or finish. I have only applied stains and finish by hand so far. Any suggestions on how to get a nice even color by hand without the stain looking blotchy? I am confident I can do this but if there is a trick to it someone would be kind enough to share. Also, what sheridan brown stain is everyone using?

As always, thanks in advance for any advice!

[sunburst]

I've done many single color rubbed stain (dye) finishes. No tricks that I've found, just rub on the dye. If things start to look blotchy, avoid the dark places and concentrate on the lighter places.
I don't know of any prepared sheriton brown. I have always mixed my own from dark brown, black, and a little of any primary color that I needed to adjust to the correct color. Usually, I was matching something (for repair or replica work) so I had to get an accurate color match. You have more leeway coloring a new instrument.

Here's your starting point, however.
Sand some scrap spruce (preferably the same as your top, and preferable carved like the top) and some scrap maple exactly like you will sand the mandolin for finishing, then practice while adjusting your color. When you can get a satisfyingly even and correct color, then you are ready to stain the mandolin. You can be more certain of the color if you finish your dyed test pieces to see what your color will look like under finish. (If you don't already know this, it will look very much like it does before the dyes dry.)

[fscotte]

I use water and dye mix. I find it much easier to apply with water since it doesn't dry quickly. Just dilute the stain well. Blotchy spots can happen for several reasons, uneven sanding is one so make sure you use the same grit and pressure to sand. The spruce top is susceptible to blotchy spots because it absorbs the stain quickly. To counter that, either dilute the stain well (you can always apply more coats), or you can pre-moisten the top with water, not too much, just wipe it with a lightly wet towel. That will prevent the top from absorbing too much stain.

I'll tell ya this, since going full hand rubbed stain, I haven't gone back to spraying. Looks fantastic and I enjoy the process as well.

[Dan Douris]

Thank you, John. I figured I would need to go the test on scrap route. I guess I was more concerned with the Engelmann top looking blouchy. I have found maple to be nore forgiving with applying dye then Spruce, in my brief experience anyway.

[Dan Douris]

Thanks fscotte! I also use water and dye. I pre-moistened to raise the grain during final sanding but never thought of doing so during the staining process.

[Dan Douris]

I have Fiebings Dark brown and black leather dyes I used on a past sunburst. Would these work?

[sunburst]

Yes, curly maple is a "piece of cake" to stain compared to spruce.
Leather dyes will work, they tend to penetrate deeply, it takes a lot of scraping to remove them from bindings, they're not my favorite to use, but they are so intense that blotchyness tends to be less of a problem (in my experience). I'm not sure what their "dark brown" looks like, but it might do the job. Of course, adding black will darken it, but that only helps if it is color is correct but too light.

For a single, dark color, I prefer my dyes to not be as dilute as I use for a 'burst. Repeated applications of dilute dyes tend to highlight variations in wood grain. That is fine for figured maple, where we want to enhance the blotchyness, but it is not what I want for spruce.
Click here to see Feibings leather dye on a mandola. I don't remember the name of the color, but it is not too different from sheritan brown.

[Dan Douris]

Thanks again John! I remember seeing this mandola back when you posted it. Gorgeous! That is just about the right color of his A2 maybe just a hint darker but close. That's has to be either their brown or dark brown. I will grab a bottle of their brown and compare the brown and dark brown on a scrap peice of Engelmann.

[fscotte]

Siminoff used Fiebings for this mando construction book. I read somewhere that they may have a tendency to fade in sunlight however.

[Vernon Hughes]

Dan, I used to have a gallon of the old mohawk sheraton brown wiping stain left over from my furniture restoration days. I'll look and if so will figure a way to get you some. Meanwhile,and though i've never used this brand, some of the colors are a real good starting point. http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/s...ny__Dye_-_1_oz.

[Dan Douris]

Thanks, Vernon! I do really enjoy doing hand applied sunbursts and have never done a single stained instrument. Kind of boring to me.
I think even a slight sunburst can bring out the figure in maple better than a single stain color.

[fscotte]

Why not just do a single stain sunburst then? Just make the sunburst application less diluted. Or, add a drop of a darker color. The effect can be as subtle as you want it.

Color can be achieved by varying the saturation levels. You can do amazing sunburst with just amber. I just happen to be in the middle of doing a one stain light sunburst using amber. Like you, I'm not big on a solid color, hard to resist adding some burst.

[V70416]

fscotte,that is a nice looking back! Very nice.

[fscotte]

Thanks, it's from a long board of this oddly curled hard maple. I've gotten about 7 backs out of it.

[darylcrisp]

Why not just do a single stain sunburst then? Just make the sunburst application less diluted. Or, add a drop of a darker color. The effect can be as subtle as you want it.

Color can be achieved by varying the saturation levels. You can do amazing sunburst with just amber. I just happen to be in the middle of doing a one stain light sunburst using amber. Like you, I'm not big on a solid color, hard to resist adding some burst.

that looks great!
how is the front going to look?

[fscotte]

Blackface.

[Dan Douris]

So after a discussion with the customer, we agreed that going with a lighter brown might bring out the figure in the wood better. Here is the back with a few coats of varnish so far.

Thanks all for the input. Always know I can count on the forum for solid advice.

[Dale Ludewig]

That's very nice.

[Dan Douris]

Thanks Dale!

[Houngan]

Yes, curly maple is a "piece of cake" to stain compared to spruce.
Leather dyes will work, they tend to penetrate deeply, it takes a lot of scraping to remove them from bindings, they're not my favorite to use, but they are so intense that blotchyness tends to be less of a problem (in my experience). I'm not sure what their "dark brown" looks like, but it might do the job. Of course, adding black will darken it, but that only helps if it is color is correct but too light.

For a single, dark color, I prefer my dyes to not be as dilute as I use for a 'burst. Repeated applications of dilute dyes tend to highlight variations in wood grain. That is fine for figured maple, where we want to enhance the blotchyness, but it is not what I want for spruce.
Click here to see Feibings leather dye on a mandola. I don't remember the name of the color, but it is not too different from sheritan brown.

I'm still practicing on scraps, but am I going the wrong way with this thinking: A leather dye black/mahogany on maple side, spruce top edge, blending into a darker tobacco brown and then an amber? I'm hand rubbing with alcohol dyes and I've had no luck getting a dye dark enough for the edges to my liking, so I've ordered some Fiebing's.

[Dan Douris]

The finished mando delivered to the customer. Not a true Sheriton brown but he was pleased!