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Thread: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

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    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    At some point, I'll probably want a better pickup for my mando. There are a lot out there, but the two I'm most interested in are the Baggs Radius-M and K&K's Twin.

    Which do you like better? What's the trade-off between internal and external pickups? (Baggs's is external. K&K offers both.)

    Thanks!

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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    I had a Baggs that I used a few times on my Jade. I ran it straight into a Crate acoustic amp, then later used a Para DI as a pre-amp, but I could never get a sound out of it that I could live with. Never managed to EQ out the pick knock and handling noise. I ended up going with an AT Pro 35 clip-on.

    My current axe (Northfield) came with a K&K twin already installed with an endpin jack. Much better sound right out of the gate. It sounds pretty good running straight into an amp or the board with very little EQ work. I have a Redeye pre-amp that seems to sweeten the sound even more. I still prefer the clip-on, but the K&K provides a fine substitute when I need to plug in.

    I haven't tried one, but JJB makes a piezo equivalent to the K&K at an even lower price. I can't remember exactly what I paid for the Baggs, but you could probably buy a JJB and have it professionally installed for about the cost of the Baggs alone. And I would go for internal with an endpin jack. No muss, no fuss, you'll never forget and leave it at home. And to my ears it has no effect on the acoustic sound. And it's mod that is easily reversed if desired.
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    Mandolin user MontanaMatt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    The radius can be internal too.
    It's what I use with a Triton Piezo bigAmp. It is great. The right impedance is vital to it's function. Baggs pre amps sound too (cheap capacitor tinny) thin to me, thus the boutique pre for me.
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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    I would go with the K&K. Very predictable. Easy installation. Not too fussy about impedance (circa 1M is fine). Only modest EQ normally required.

    I am not a fan of the Radius. Even though I have several ultra-high impedance preamps available (including the Triton, and the Headway EDB-2), I find it tends to require a lot of LF rolloff to remove 'thump' and I simply find it harder work than the K&K's.
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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by almeriastrings View Post
    I would go with the K&K. Very predictable. Easy installation. Not too fussy about impedance (circa 1M is fine). Only modest EQ normally required.

    I am not a fan of the Radius. . . . I simply find it harder work than the K&K's.
    I have a K&K spider bridge pickup in my squareneck, and it's very well-behaved.

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    Gummy Bears and Scotch BrianWilliam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by almeriastrings View Post
    I would go with the K&K. Very predictable. Easy installation. Not too fussy about impedance (circa 1M is fine). Only modest EQ normally required.

    I am not a fan of the Radius...I find it tends to require a lot of LF rolloff to remove 'thump' and I simply find it harder work than the K&K's.
    This

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    Troy Shellhamer 9lbShellhamer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    I'm interested in this as well. I was hoping for better reviews on the baggs because I love the boost feature on the Venue DI preamp that you can use with it. Any suggestions on a boost DI preamp that would work well with the K&K? I've read that you should stick to the same brands....
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    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by 9lbShellhamer View Post
    I'm interested in this as well. I was hoping for better reviews on the baggs because I love the boost feature on the Venue DI preamp that you can use with it. Any suggestions on a boost DI preamp that would work well with the K&K? I've read that you should stick to the same brands....
    I think brand consistency is more important with some makes than others. My preamp/DI is a BBE Acoustimax, which for boosting has a "Sonic Maximizer" button with a bass and a treble knob so you have a bit of control over the frequencies you boost.

    The pickups I run through it are a K&K spider bridge pickup, a Dean Markley single-coil guitar soundhole pickup, and a stick-on Dean Markley transducer for mando. The BBE doesn't seem to care.

    One reason I don't want a Fishman pickup is that they always seem to match up all their gear so you need to buy long, expensive chains of whatnot.

    Now it's starting to sound like Baggs is the same. Not a great selling point for my purposes.

    Happy with the K&K in my dobro. It's starting to look like I should start saving up for one for my mando, too!

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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by 9lbShellhamer View Post
    I'm interested in this as well. I was hoping for better reviews on the baggs because I love the boost feature on the Venue DI preamp that you can use with it. Any suggestions on a boost DI preamp that would work well with the K&K? I've read that you should stick to the same brands....
    I have used Baggs para, Orchid, K&K and FireEye. I have a K&K pickup and the FireEye is by far the best. It has a boost that is adjustable and needs very little EQ adjustment. I don't believe there is any reason to stay with the brand.
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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    As long as the specs match up you can mix any brand. Not a problem at all.
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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by almeriastrings View Post
    I would go with the K&K. Very predictable. Easy installation. Not too fussy about impedance (circa 1M is fine). Only modest EQ normally required.

    I am not a fan of the Radius. Even though I have several ultra-high impedance preamps available (including the Triton, and the Headway EDB-2), I find it tends to require a lot of LF rolloff to remove 'thump' and I simply find it harder work than the K&K's.
    AL strings..I have yet to take the time to post a reply sound sample re:Baggs...but the one you posted a few months ago, I agree, sounded bad...
    I consistently have well versed musicians and mandolin specific players complement the open natural sound of my rig. Baggs to Triton piezo big amp to mackie dl to qsc kw speakers. I'll grab a board recording next gig and post.
    I've spent some time moving around the sensor on the outside in preparation for permanent installation, and there were definitely bad placements, I assume it's on a node or in an area of extreme movement, but the sound Sierra Hull gets live is all from the Baggs, no mic, and it's pretty fantastic too.
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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaMatt View Post
    AL strings..I have yet to take the time to post a reply sound sample re:Baggs...but the one you posted a few months ago, I agree, sounded bad...
    I consistently have well versed musicians and mandolin specific players complement the open natural sound of my rig. Baggs to Triton piezo big amp to mackie dl to qsc kw speakers. I'll grab a board recording next gig and post.
    I've spent some time moving around the sensor on the outside in preparation for permanent installation, and there were definitely bad placements, I assume it's on a node or in an area of extreme movement, but the sound Sierra Hull gets live is all from the Baggs, no mic, and it's pretty fantastic too.
    I am not saying they can't sound fine - but that I find they take a lot more work to get 'dialled in' than many other options. I rarely use a pickup at all myself (I have an AKG C411, 'just in case') but I do install quite a few for other people. They seem ultra-sensitive to placement, and seem to work better on some mandolins than others. The K&K's are less "fussy" in terms of placement, don't require an ultra-high-z input, and you can dial them in on the board very easily, which is why I tend to suggest these as a safe bet.
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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    I second the K&K with a fire eye or red eye preamp. K&K is very easy to set up and dial in no matter how what you seem to plug into. I have had literately no issues what so ever with any situation I have had to plug into.. The fire eye boxes are also just top notch. all hand made in Texas by some guys who know what they are doing... You can pretty much plug any pickup into any boost box you want and it will boost.... thing you want to look for is dependability and the sound, I've tried a lot of these things including TC eelctronic, which I like, LR baggs, Fishman and so on and truly, nothing beats the red eye in my opinion.
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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    I own both and switched to the K&K after years of being annoyed with the radius. I agree with the points above, the K&K is easier to achieve good sound with. The last thing you want to be doing at a live gig is constantly trying to “dial in”your pickup.

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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaMatt View Post
    . . . I consistently have well versed musicians and mandolin specific players complement the open natural sound of my rig. Baggs to Triton piezo . . . .
    My friends with Baggs gear, a Celtic/Maritimes duo, are real happy with what they have. And they sound good, too.

    They might be more into tone tweaking than I am. I'm a plug-and-play type.

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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    I absolutely love the K&K twin. It really does sound pretty natural sounding. I did have an issue though with it and the Fishman Platinum Pre. I kept hearing distortion when chording. It tuns out that the pickup is so strong that the input impedance on the Fishman (10M) was too high and thus the cause of the distortion. I ended up buying the red eye which sounds great. The only bummer is there is no mute on it.....not that I ever have to tune...LOL.

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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    RedEye will change your boost switch to a mute, or you can use the effect out and in to do the same thing. I went inside and put a tiny toggle switch in for a mute so I could keep the boost. If you use your effect to mute you can still keep the boost.
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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    Like above, I use the red eye effects out loop to go into a TC electronics polytune When you turn on the tuner, it mutes everything and you can tune, unplug etc. without a "pop". The TC tuners can be used in strobe mode as well which is nice. But really, you can run into any tuner you like and they should all mute while the tuner is engaged.
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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    https://www.fire-eye.com/red-eye-1
    Here is the one I'm using. Again, very well built stuff and made specifically for acoustic. Very natural.
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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Wiseman View Post
    https://www.fire-eye.com/red-eye-1
    Here is the one I'm using. Again, very well built stuff and made specifically for acoustic. Very natural.
    That's the same one I am using too. I was able to put a micro toggle above the battery, just for a mute. I have to reach down and flick it and not just step on a switch, but easy and works well. My effects will still work too.
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    Registered User Gabriel Wiseman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    Did you just wire the switch into the battery line?
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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel Wiseman View Post
    Did you just wire the switch into the battery line?
    No I wired the switch into the effects, if I remember I shorted the effects out and with nothing going in it mutes the preamp. This could be done externally also.
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    Registered User almeriastrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    Never try to mute anything by using the power lines from the battery. Horrendous 'bang' or 'pop' will result that can damage your speakers (and your ears). This is done by placing a resistor or resistor/capacitor combination across the signal feeds, or by using a solid-stare (transistor) muting circuit.
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    Registered User Gabriel Wiseman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    got ya. I assume that the switch works for the XLR out as well.....
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    Default Re: Baggs Radius-M versus K&K Twin pickups

    You shouldn't change anything on the balanced output, if you are using phantom there is voltage on there. As almeriastrings has said switching voltage, including phantom, will make a pop in your speakers. Shorting the effects out without putting anything back into the input shuts the pre signal down as the input for the effects should be before the output of the XLR.
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