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Thread: My first refret, and questions

  1. #1
    Registered User Drew Streip's Avatar
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    Default My first refret, and questions

    I chose to undertake a full refret of my old "Lotus" laminate top mando. It had the typical issues of an old entry-level instrument: divots and dents in the frets, fret ends springing up over the binding, and not enough material left in the frets to accurately level and recrown.

    It was a flat board, but I put a 10" radius on it. I even got fancy and figured out some tricks for nipping and filing the tang to overhang the binding. However, I haven't yet cleaned up the fret ends -- I want it to settle for a day and make sure nothing springs up.

    My question is twofold:

    1) Has anybody ever (purposefully) extended the fret slots through the binding?

    2) On an old instrument with no historical or monetary value, what would it hurt to fret straight through the binding?

    I'm obviously not afraid of work, but I now see why bound fretboards cost more. Assuming in the worst case that I had to redo my fret job, what would be the trade-offs of just extending my fret slots all the way out?

    Thanks for all your information and tips that I've used so far!

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  3. #2

    Default Re: My first refret, and questions

    I saw this on Facebook... You're giving me courage to try refretting my own stuff.
    Soliver arm rested and Tone-Garded Northfield Model M with D’Addario NB 11.5-41, picked with a Wegen Bluegrass 1.4

  4. #3

    Default Re: My first refret, and questions

    It is your mandolin. The only negative that I can think of is the tang showing.

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    Registered User Vernon Hughes's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first refret, and questions

    It just wouldn't look right to have the frets extend through the binding. My 2 cents.
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    Default Re: My first refret, and questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Streip View Post
    My question is twofold:

    1) Has anybody ever (purposefully) extended the fret slots through the binding?

    2) On an old instrument with no historical or monetary value, what would it hurt to fret straight through the binding?


    Thanks for all your information and tips that I've used so far!
    1) No

    2) It's basically mind over matter. That is, if you don't mind, it don't matter.

    To me it would be aesthetically unpleasing but if it it doesn't bother you and the instrument is of little value monetarily or historically then it's your call. Things to consider would include that the binding does have a functional element. That is to eliminate the rough feel of the fret ends. Even when properly filed flush to the fingerboard edge, low humidity can cause the fingerboard to shrink exposing the fret tang ends.
    Also, on quality unbound fingerboards, the gap left at the bottom of the fret tang is filled and filed smooth. Burn-in shellac sticks are often used for this but epoxy dyed black or other fillers can be used. It would be difficult to fill and match the binding this way so you will probably end up with little gaps under your fret tang ends.

    Removing the tang from the end of the frets is not that difficult but it is time consuming and therefore, more expensive. For years, all I used was a small pair of end nippers and a small (8") ####### file to remove the tang at the fret ends. I cut a shallow groove in a piece of hardwood then clamped that to my workbench. The groove would help hold the fret crown steady while I filed away the tang. Holding the tang, near the fret end with the nippers, I pressed the fret crown down into the shallow groove on the piece of hardwood (left hand) and filed away the tang with the file in my right.

    Good luck!
    www.apitiusmandolins.com

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    Registered User Drew Streip's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first refret, and questions

    Thanks Oliver! Nice explanation. I had tried a similar method, but discovered last night that my flat diamond-grit needle file worked even better. After I removed the tang with nippers, the short edge of my file would make a perfectly binding-width channel in whatever excess was left.

    So far, it doesn't look like I'd have to try my through-the-binding method. I was just thinking of worst-case scenario (if I failed multiple times to do this correctly).

    Here's what it looks like after using the needle file:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    And with all the frets in place (EVO gold, because why not?):

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Default Re: My first refret, and questions

    I think any savings in time and effort of not trimming the tang would be lost in having to cut a slot in the binding and having to dress the fret end without damaging the binding.

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    Mandolin User Andy Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first refret, and questions

    Pointer for next time - cut your frets closer to their finished length and you'll spend less time nipping/filing the tang back. You've got a lot of overhang on some of those!

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  12. #9
    Registered User Drew Streip's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first refret, and questions

    Thanks! Yep -- I wasn't sure how far to err, but I wanted to make sure I could (1) cut the EVO wire without mangling it, and (2) get some purchase on the tang! I started with a set of not-great nippers and quickly realized that I needed a better tool.

    But with any luck, there will be a next time

  13. #10
    Registered User Drew Streip's Avatar
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    Default Re: My first refret, and questions

    Well, my work is done! Yesterday I leveled frets (very little leveling needed, just a few spots). Then I shaped the fret ends (interesting semi-hemispherical discussion going on now, but I went traditional). Then I buffed the whole board with Micro Mesh and re-oiled.

    Next I put a radius on the bridge* and fitted it to the top. I purchased the bridge from LMI. This took me no more than 20 minutes.

    Making and slotting a new bone nut was time intensive. I rough-shaped it based on the old nut before gluing it in place. However, I forgot to account for the height that I took off the fretboard, so I ended up having to sand down the top while the nut was attached. Then i cut (and re-cut, and re-cut) the string slots as I took off about 1/8".

    Finally, around 9 p.m., I was ready to set the action. It's on the medium-high side, almost identical to my main axe, until I get brave enough to lower it more. One of the D courses is a tiny bit higher than the other but I will fix that later.

    How does it play? GREAT! I can't believe it. It's louder and throaty, probably due to the new (harder, better fitted) bridge and bone nut (instead of plastic). Nobody's gonna mistake it for Crusher, but I'm thrilled.

    Thanks again for all your information and insight. I hope to have a long future of mandolin tinkering ahead of me.

    *After I set the action, I put some Teflon tape on the bridge posts to take up any extra slack in the holes and try to avoid saddle lean. Not sure if it'll work long term but it snugged it up now.

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