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Thread: How to hold the pick

  1. #51
    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo75 View Post
    As seen on previous page. Deja vu all over again!

  2. #52
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    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Bertram Henze View Post
    The sum of complexity of tool and usage seems to be a constant. The skills of neolithic people must have been better than anything we can do today, and the pick is not too far away from a chip of flintstone.
    New, old math! Thank you.
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  4. #53
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    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	161499 today's flintknappers are producing some amazing stuff,,,but not good for mandolin picks..

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  6. #54
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    Quote Originally Posted by T.D.Nydn View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	161499 today's flintknappers are producing some amazing stuff,,,but not good for mandolin picks..


    Well, it is thick and pointy!

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  8. #55

    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Poole View Post
    Someone needs to design a pick much like a thumb pick that will slip over your index finger and then all you would have to do is just place your thumb on top of it to insure that it wouldn`t fall off or slip....Come on you inventers out there, show your stuff...

    Willie
    In Tony Sullivan's Irish Tenor Banjo book he describes a method of playing using what he calls a "thimble", essentially a small piece of plastic piping that slides over the first finger and is held their by the thumb. The piping is cut at an angle and the sharper edge is used to pluck the strings. I think he said Johnny Keenan used this method, and I think he may have used it himself (judging by recordings). It seems to give a little bit of a different tone, as you'd imagine. I'd also imagine it'd make strumming the strings very clunky, but of course Irish tenor banjo players typically don't do a lot of strumming.

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  10. #56
    MandolaViola bratsche's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    Quote Originally Posted by T.D.Nydn View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	161499 today's flintknappers are producing some amazing stuff,,,but not good for mandolin picks..
    Don't be so obsidian... er, I mean obstinate!

    That serrated edge just might just help out one's tremolo (or not)...

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  12. #57
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    Quote Originally Posted by ampyjoe View Post
    In Tony Sullivan's Irish Tenor Banjo book he describes a method of playing using what he calls a "thimble", essentially a small piece of plastic piping that slides over the first finger and is held their by the thumb. The piping is cut at an angle and the sharper edge is used to pluck the strings. I think he said Johnny Keenan used this method....seems to give a little bit of a different tone, as you'd imagine. I'd also imagine it'd make strumming the strings very clunky, but of course Irish tenor banjo players typically don't do a lot of strumming.
    Right, it's a melodic style and that book does show a "thimble" type pick that fits over the index fingertip. The thumb may just stabilize it, as if it were a round (as in around the finger) pick with a sharp edge.

    http://thimbles.host-ed.me/Non_sewing.html

    There's some medical (ugh) and unusual stuff about thimbles, but they mention thimble-type picks:

    "Banjo players sometimes used to wear a thimble on the first finger for ‘stroke’ or ‘thimble’ playing. The thimble (Fig 21) was usually made of German silver and should not be thick or heavy. According to S.S. Stewarts Banjo and Guitar Journal in 1887, ‘In playing marches, etc., the entire execution is nearly always done with the thimble; that is, nearly all the notes are struck with the thimble, and the thumb is little used…"





    Although the last is listed as a sewing thimble, it looks a lot like Sully's.

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  14. #58
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    the Bickfords method.. index finger curled uptight, pick laid on top, then thumb holds it down .


    Herco's thumb-flatpicks (of their heaviest gages) , will not fall to the floor if your grip is too soft.
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  16. #59
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    The topic seems to have turned its attention towards pick slippage and pick loss, which is natural, because an impressive percentage of the force holding the pick is just for preventing that. My longterm solution is still rosin powder (rubbed violently between thumb and index, your pick will stick to either and everything becomes much more relaxed).
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

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  18. #60
    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    Just getting around to reading this thread - have always been the thumb and index finger type of pick holder. However, I have seen and played with folks who use the pencil grip. Works for them. My grip may have changed around the time I first watched one of the Norman Blake videos where he describes his method of holding the pick and playing. That caused me to experiment a bit. However, at this point no longer remember whether I changed or not.

    My main bad habit these days is gripping the pick too tight. Whenever I try to relax, the pick moves around too much and I can't pull a tone I want from the instrument.
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  20. #61
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    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    DavidKOS: I recently saw a picture of a clawhammer pick that looks exactly like your first picture, but i can't find the reference (probably on banjo hangout

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    Maybe somewhere on this thread are pictures of picks that are held by the entire length of the palm, if not: http://www.pykmax.com/ (this vendor seems to have faded out and only a few "Youth" sizes are available to buy

    and pick # 10: http://www.guitarworld.com/acoustic-...e-be-different

    and Zero Orbit: https://www.amazon.com/ZeroGravity-O...dp/B0002E1UNU/
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  22. #62

    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    https://youtu.be/AVHLyIDDwEk
    good view of this classical players pick grip. Certainly works for her

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  24. #63
    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Bertram Henze View Post
    The topic seems to have turned its attention towards pick slippage and pick loss, which is natural, because an impressive percentage of the force holding the pick is just for preventing that. My longterm solution is still rosin powder (rubbed violently between thumb and index, your pick will stick to either and everything becomes much more relaxed).
    Sounds like you're rosin to the occasion!

  25. #64
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein View Post
    Sounds like you're rosin to the occasion!
    It's a conversation piece, too. A concertina player asked what I had in that little tin box, and I told her to hold out her hand, snowed some of it on her palm and told her to rub and check the smell, and she did so (despite two fiddlers shouting "don't!") and found out she had to wash her hands before playing her concertina again.
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  26. #65
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus Lester View Post
    https://youtu.be/AVHLyIDDwEk
    good view of this classical players pick grip. Certainly works for her
    Let's see....


    free hand, no planted pinky

    pointed pick

    lots of control

    notice the small adjustments the 1st finger and thumb make while playing.

    a fine example!

  27. #66
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    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    Interesting! I'm not saying either is right or wrong but what she is doing is definitely different from what Thile advocates. Both are using the the thumb and first finger, but she uses more of the pad of her first finger while Thile advocates using the side of the first finger (around the knuckle). It may seem like an insignificant difference, but the feel is very different (I have experimented with both methods before). I'm not saying either one is right or wrong, but rather, there are two different ways to use the thumb and first finger and it's useful to explore both of them to see which you like.

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  29. #67
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo75 View Post
    Interesting! I'm not saying either is right or wrong but what she is doing is definitely different from what Thile advocates. Both are using the the thumb and first finger, but she uses more of the pad of her first finger while Thile advocates using the side of the first finger (around the knuckle). It may seem like an insignificant difference, but the feel is very different (I have experimented with both methods before). I'm not saying either one is right or wrong, but rather, there are two different ways to use the thumb and first finger and it's useful to explore both of them to see which you like.
    The player's hands are somewhat differently built, too.

  30. #68
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    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    And much of Caterina's picking is close to the bridge, for a bright, treble-y thing.

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  32. #69
    Fatally Flawed Bill Kammerzell's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    When I started back playing 2 years ago after about a 23 year lay off I decided to do things correctly or according to what professionals do, so to speak. So I took on line lessons advertised here. Sharon Gilchrist was my instructor of choice. She's a fine musician, explains in a plain manner, and of course she is very easy on the eyes. I try and hold the pick like she does. Which is similar to Mike Marshall. I do try and check myself from time to time, so I'm not using a death grip and I try to stay close to midway between the end of the fretboard and the bridge. Though, from time to time I find myself drifting towards the fret board. This is why I have begun to prefer "Non Florida" fret boards. More room. I honestly try not to get too much input any longer from the experts because I find myself getting confused. I just use the thumb/index with about 1/4" (give or take) of the pick showing. Relaxed grip, loose wrist, very little arm, though I do let the forearm travel up or down depending on where I'm playing. Of course bad habits come and go. Try not to rest the pinky anywhere. Hard habit to break. The strange thing about the pick grip is, that fabulous players like Marshall, Gilchrist or Thile, would likely sound great if they played the mandolin with a thump pick.
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  33. #70
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKOS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus Lester View Post
    https://youtu.be/AVHLyIDDwEk
    good view of this classical players pick grip. Certainly works for her
    Let's see....


    free hand, no planted pinky

    pointed pick

    lots of control

    notice the small adjustments the 1st finger and thumb make while playing.

    a fine example!
    BUT - extreme concavity in the index finger to counter the pick forces, especially when doing tremolo. I wonder how the joints are going to take this in the long run, when she is, say, 65?. Reminds me a bit of the bent right thumb of box players.

    The interesting thing about that video is the camera angle - we get to see what the player is seeing; we almost get to be the player. I must try that some time.
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  35. #71
    Registered User T.D.Nydn's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    The way she is holding it,it looks like the 3 finger grip but with only 2,,is that correct classical form?...

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  37. #72
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanN View Post
    And much of Caterina's picking is close to the bridge, for a bright, treble-y thing.
    Yeah, great tone!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bertram Henze View Post
    BUT - extreme concavity in the index finger to counter the pick forces, especially when doing tremolo. I wonder how the joints are going to take this in the long run, when she is, say, 65?.
    She seems very relaxed, and not stressing anything ergonomincally, so I bet she'll be fine at 65.

    Quote Originally Posted by T.D.Nydn View Post
    The way she is holding it,it looks like the 3 finger grip but with only 2,,is that correct classical form?...
    She varies the angle of the pick, where she plays in terms of sul tasto and sul ponticello, alters her attack, etc. for phrasing and dynamics. I'd say that was "correct"!

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  39. #73

    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall View Post
    If you look at David KOS's post at the diagram ''Holding the Plectrum'' - i hold mine as per the right hand side diagram,between my thumb & the end joint of my first finger. It works for me & right now i'm glad about that. I've now got Trigger finger in my right hand first & second fingers.The second finger doesn't bother me,it's been like that for a couple of years now,but my first finger is painful if i try to curl it up & it's stiff even holding the pick as i do. If i'd been holding the pick with my first finger curled up,i'd have had to adapt or give up,so i'm fortunate to have a pick grip that still works for me ,
    Ivan
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    I've been watching a lot of Johnson Mountain Boys videos and it looks like David McLaughlin has a very similar grip. So you're in good company!

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  41. #74
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

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  43. #75
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    Default Re: How to hold the pick

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    Thank you!

    And lest you miss the finer points of my comment, allow me to re-state it...

    Thank you!

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