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Thread: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

  1. #26
    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    I come down on the used/great/USA side.

    I used to drive deliveries for a big antique furniture store that also sold repros. The repros always went into the truck bubble-wrapped and cardboarded beyond recognition. The $3,000 antiques just got thrown in the truck. Why? Antiques are supposed to be beat-up!

    If you want a Collings or Weber now, you'll always want one. Get a one that's already broken in and it won't hurt when you get your first ding. Or your tenth.

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  3. #27
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    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    I admit that I like to buy American when I can but now days it`s hard to tell if any item is 100% American made so I usually go for sound when I plan on buying a mandolin...I own four, three are American made and one is Chinese, A Kentucky KM-956 and it sounds as good as the other three hands down...I also find that when playing in front of an audience there isn`t that many people that care what you are playing and most don`t know a good sounding mandolin from a bad one if the sound system is decent, I have had people come up to the stage after a show and ask what I was playing, they are usually other bluegrass pickers and/or mandolin players but I do have the state of the art sound system and take quite a while getting it set so that the instruments all sound good...

    Play as many mandolins a you can and one will speak to you and don`t even look at what the name of it is...

    Just mu opinion, "I know a lot because I have seen a lot" to quote the Traveler`s insurance commercial...

    Willie

  4. #28
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    Get what you really really want, get insurance, play the potatoes out of it everywhere. Done.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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  6. #29
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    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    You maybe at the point where you need a backup, if you're gigging enough. A Kentucky master model or one of the less expensive Collings MT's would be a good choice for something that's going to get pinky rubbed, frequently restrung and traveled around.

    If you say wehre you are, people can suggest shops, or maybe volunteer to let yo play their big name or small maker instruments. Also at jams/festivals, you can listen and maybe suggest swapping mandolins for a tune (always tricky, I think if I had a varnish Collings I'd have to not let anybody else play it)
    Kentucky km900
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  7. #30
    Scroll Lock Austin Bob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    Let's assume you were asking about a guitar. Since you'll be playing though a mic, but having a pickup as a backup, would you be happy with $600 Takaminie, our would a $2,500 Taylor be more of the ticket?

    If you chose the first, then I'd call a couple of the sponsor sites and ask about their best current deals, perhaps a Kentucky or Eastman.

    If you're more of a Taylor kinda guy, then I'd look for a used Collins or the like.

    I'd doubt if an audience member could hear a big difference between the two guitars, especially in a noisy setting. But there'd be a difference in how they sounded acoustically if you were playing in the living room, and the Taylor would win on how easy it was to play as well.
    Last edited by Austin Bob; Oct-01-2017 at 3:05pm.
    A quarter tone flat and a half a beat behind.

  8. #31

    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    Oh man... I hope I didn't overstate. I have a few paid gigs a month. It's not my profession. So sorry I gave that impression! I feed the kids and pay the bills with my teaching gig (and I'm a veteran... had to smile at u/Grizzly Adam's signature! Custom made for me!).

    I really REALLY appreciate everyone's time and trouble offering up their thoughts and perspectives. Unfortunately, I really am not motivated to search the used market... and I *LOVE* used stuff. 90% of my house is used stuff of Craigslist. My cars are used... etc.

    But I'm going to keep an open mind! Try to get my hands on some of these sacred mandolins and see if I suddenly rip some blistering 64th note solos!

  9. #32
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    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    I'd buy this used 2017 JBovier A5 in a heartbeat
    https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/115711#115711
    Seller is asking $750.
    You can buy a good JJB pickup for $40 and install it yourself or have your local shop install it
    http://www.jjb-electronics.com/prestige-220.html

  10. #33
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    I bought an A4 that was made when my (late) mother was born, the original buyer got it
    ( approx 6 years )after he came back from WW1.
    writing about music
    is like dancing,
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  11. #34
    Registered User J-45er's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    Your original $2500 budget could get you a new Weber or Collings A-style. The domestically made F-styles are where the prices start going haywire.

    If you want an F-style, I'd go with a Kentucky or Eastman with an Adirondack spruce top or for a little less $ one with a whatever-spruce-they-use top. I'd just make sure that it is set up to be easy to play, like you suggest in your OP. Really, if you are running it through a pickup and sound system (and maybe even a pedal), don't waste $ on a good sounding, expensive instrument because on stage you will never sound like you do in your practice studio. Personally, I wouldn't expose an expensive domestically-made mandolin to the risks inherent on stage unless the manufacturer is giving me one to play.

    My take on the domestic vs Chinese debate is this: If you could time machine back to 1920 to a music store with a new Gibson F5 and take along a high-end Kentucky F-5 and play each blindfolded side-by-side, it would be interesting to see which one you thought sounded better. Remember - a folk instrument's sound is purely subjective and really depends more on the player. Really - in some situations, a cheap plywood mandolin may have a more accurate, authentic old-time sound -- if that is what the player is going for.

  12. #35
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    Quote Originally Posted by J-45er View Post
    ...Really - in some situations, a cheap plywood mandolin may have a more accurate, authentic old-time sound -- if that is what the player is going for.
    Holds true for players looking to sound like the old blues guys on the guitar side. They played those instruments because that was all they could afford.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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  14. #36
    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    Holds true for players looking to sound like the old blues guys on the guitar side. They played those instruments because that was all they could afford.
    I know a guitar teacher whose Delta blues lessons include How To Make Your Martin Sound Like a $20 Montgomery Ward Guitar.

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  16. #37

    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    Never expected 30+ replies to my question. I'm going to start watching the used thread here. My purchase timeline is May 2018 (gotta' pay off the PA system first).

    I need to lurk and read more around here. It's thrilling the civil, thoughtful discourse and exchange of ideas/opinions.

  17. #38
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    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    JonZ,

    Agree with your statement regarding MTs. Mine had one of the best feels of any mandolin I've played. The neck was just "right." But, it did have a little more "modern" tone. I actually preferred the tone of my Silverangel, which does have great bass response but is more of a traditional sounding mandolin. Doesn't mean the one I kept is "better," just better for my ears.

    If I'd had nothing to compare to, I'd have been perfectly happy with the MT. It really was an excellent mandolin.

    Having said all that, OP, Robert's suggestion regarding an Eastman 615 with the pickup installed and a CA bridge on board sounds pretty good...
    Chuck

  18. #39
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    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    What I notice in very good players is that they check whether an instrument will do what they need. Then whether it does it in the way they like. Until the magic one drops into their hands, and all bets are off, but that is rare. What a player needs changes with time. Or at least may.

    All these other considerations influence. Perhaps even influencing whether the player notices whether the instrument does the job or not.

    Another consideration is getting the most out of the instrument.

    With that in mind, I have had some Eastman and Kentucky 900 950 1000 1050 that end up really checking the boxes off. Whether or not that was obvious in the pre-worked-up condition. I have also had MT and the like that really sparkled in the end. And a couple of 1920s Gibsons that expanded. So don't underestimate what any of these instruments will do with potential realized.

    Have fun!
    Stephen Perry

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  20. #40
    Registered User Al Trujillo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    I bought a brand new Weber Gallatin A for $1699 three years ago...less than your budget but recently I've also noted many used Weber F's, including a couple Yellowstone that were rated as Good/Excellent that fit your price range. Those are excellent instruments, as are many of the Collings that pop up on Classifieds. If you have an itch for the Weber or Collings I think you will be quite happy with either of them. Good luck on your search.

  21. #41

    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    Quote Originally Posted by SixPants View Post
    Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando
    IMO, since you asked, your logic is perfectly logical.

    But if in doubt, give yourself more time to decide before making a commitment.

    As to region of origin, meh, I used to be *so* into that, I used to prefer products hand made (no powertools used during construction) with all parts sourced within say a 50-mile radius of where I lived, forget about other countries this wasn't even a different county or state, it got to the point of impracticality and complete ridiculous absurdity. Not to mention being severely limited in my product choices unless I wanted to make/grow everything myself (done that too, got tired of it).

    I finally threw all that out the window and now I don't care where stuff comes from as long as it's functional, doesn't have glaring quality control issues that would nag at me, and doesn't break the bank.

  22. #42
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    for sub $2.5K, I'd also vote Collings MT. I think you could also get a used Stiver or other such custom shop a-models from the secondary market. I've owned a lot of mandolins and think an MT (wide neck please) would be all I need. Nothing I own cost over $3K and those that did, didn't stay - nice though.

    f-d
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  23. #43
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    Lower production costs, in Asia offer the possibility to be prettier finished, where a US made one ,
    may streamline production simplifying the finish , binding on the edges , Etc.
    to control costs..
    writing about music
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  24. #44
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    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    Get what you want and play the snot out of it. It is what they are made for. Outside gigs won't hurt it in the long run, unless you go swimming with it or something like that. If you buy cheap you'll hate the sound and be looking for a replacement very soon. Good luck.

  25. #45

    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    I have strong brand feelings toward stage pianos (Roland), a strong preference for acoustics (Taylor), but I really have no leanings when it comes to mandolin. It's not my principal instrument. For about $1000 it seems I can get an Eastman, with pickup, tonegard, a few other extras, and never look back.

    I don't want to chase tone, or chase a brand, or even an ideal. John Mayer has a really good quote to that effect... that you're never going to find a perfect tone so work within the given parameters of your instrument. Like all things, there's just a balance to it all.

  26. #46
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    With a budget of $2500 and being content with an A-style you can easily get a high quality mandolin that is made in N. America. In addition, to some of the other suggestions the Gibson A-9 model can often be found in the $1100 - 1300 price range. These are generally excellent mandolins. The ones built between 2001 - 2003 seem to be absolute killers. I've even occasionally seen the fancier A-5s in your price range - but that model was built over a much longer time period so they are not all equal IMO.
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  28. #47
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    Except for Mandroid's post about his early 20th century Gibson, you all are posting like there's only two options - decent Pac-rim for less $ or Collings/Weber for more $. Folks there are always more options. My two favorite mandolins are American made by one-man shop builders at a fraction of the Collings/Weber price. I've got a Morris hybrid F4 that set me back $1500 7 years ago. I have a used Tom Jessen F5 that I bought earlier this year for $1800. I'm talking two hand-built, American made mandolins with great tone and playability for the same kind of money you'd spend on a decent quality Kentucky or Eastman. I've played a few of these and the tone, projection and quality of my Morris and Jessen are way better. I've also played them side by side with Webers and Collings. Sure the well known American builds sound great, but not better than my lesser known American mandos. The Weber/Collings fit and finish are nicer, yes. But not enough nicer for me to pay three times what I did for mine. Now if a person has headstock envy and just won't be satisfied without the Weber or Collings name, that's a different issue.

  29. #48
    Capt. E Capt. E's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    $2500 will easily buy you a nice teen Gibson A-4 that can be your one and only. I also agree about the small shop American builders. "June" made by Walter Johnson, one of the great crop of young builders, is one to look at: http://www.junemandolinsandguitars.com
    Jammin' south of the river
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  30. #49

    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandobart View Post
    Except for Mandroid's post about his early 20th century Gibson, you all are posting like there's only two options - decent Pac-rim for less $ or Collings/Weber for more $.
    I suspected I created a bit of a false dichotomy. I just haven't done the research yet but I hoped there were some up-and-coming USA builders in the $1500 range.

    A good builder does not guarantee a good setup though... am I right or is that really not the case?

  31. #50
    Orso grasso FatBear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rate my Logic: Choosing the Chinese over the USA Mando

    I think if you buy a factory made instrument from a company like Weber or Gibson or Collings, you should expect a reasonably good setup, but maybe not ideal for you, personally. A luthier friend of mine once explained, in more detail than I am even accused of, that every player is different and may need tweaks even to the most careful factory setup.

    On the other hand, if you buy from an independent luthier, you should be able to work with him/her to get the setup a lot closer up front. And then you will get it home and find that your environmental conditions (humidity, mostly) are different than in the shop and you may want the action higher or lower. And that will affect intonation. Or you may try different strings which will affect intonation and maybe require the slots in nut and saddle to be adjusted. Or you might get lucky and have a similar environment to the shop and love the strings and so on and everything is perfect. You just never know.

    For 12 years we moved between Oregon in the summer and southern CA in the winter. Oregon on a floating home in the river is very humid. Southern CA is very dry. My mandolin had a fixed bridge so I had two of them: my summer bridge and my winter bridge. I sanded and fitted them very carefully and got good at adjusting my intonation, etc. Then I got an adjustable bridge to make things easier. But you still have to adjust intonation when it goes up/down, so I'm not sure how much I really gained.

    So you are right that setup is important, but it's probably not going to be a one-time deal.

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