Breedlove?

[mandomaybe]

I have a Breedlove Quartz O, which was made in 1993, according to the folks at Breedlove when I gave them the serial number. I bought it used for around $850 several years ago. i'm looking to upgrade and was surprised to see this brand has plummeted in value. I'm sure there is some explanation; can someone enlighten me? I'm now re-adjusting my budget for an upgrade as I guess I'll be lowering my expectations for resale value of mine.

[CarlM]

The Breedlove name has lost some value due to outsourcing production to the Pacific Rim under the current ownership. Some guitar and no mandolin production has been kept in the U.S.. Unfortunately the introduction of the lower cost lines may have affected the value of American made Breedlove instruments like yours. The decision was a hard business decision and without the new ownership Breedlove would very likely be defunct as a company. But the product is not the same as it was before.

[Eric Platt]

CarlM sums it up perfectly. Instruments like yours are excellent, but the market for them is very soft. Bad for you, good for a buyer. (Doubt I could have been able to buy my Cascade if the market was strong).

Oh, and I don't believe the 1993 date is correct. From what I can find through this group, Breedlove didn't start building mandolins until 1997 (for the winter 1998 NAMM show).

[Bill Kammerzell]

Just this June I was able to buy a mint condition Legacy OF (2015) for less than half it's retail value when it was new. It's beautiful, sounds great. Also Acoustic/Electric, with what is likely a builder installed Twin K&K. As everyone else has said, the outsourcing really hurt the pricing from the seller side.

[Steve L]

Breedloves didn't ever seem to have good resale value, even before the Two Old Hippies acquisition. I think the "other than traditional" look was more of a factor than the quality, which tended to be quite good. $850 was a pretty good price when you bought it and it's still a good instrument. I paid about that for my Quartz KF. I also got one of the first generation laminate body Crossover 00s which were being blown out at the time. For the $260 I paid for it, I think it's really good and keep it at my teaching studio. Compared to things like the Gretsch, Fender, and Washburn mandos I've seen, I think they're much better. I'm quite fond of the Breedlove neck profile but not everyone is.

Just curious what you're looking at in terms of upgrade. I'd keep the Breedlove if you can, I don't think you'd be sorry to have it.

[Steve Ostrander]

I don't get the devaluation of the American-made Breedlove models. Fender and Gibson (and others) have made some very undesirable models over the years and it doesn't seem to have hurt their used prices for their decent models. I guess that big "G" or "F" on the headstock excuses a lot of sins...

[Scott Rucker]

I agree about that 1993 date. I have an early Olympic, SN 14X. I was told by Breedlove and the seller from whom I bought it (Gryphon Strings) that it was made in 1997. I got what I thought was a fair deal when I bought it in 2003. I've seen a couple of similar Premier class O shaped Breedloves selling lately for about what I paid then. I've thought several times about "upgrading" to a vintage Gibson A style, mostly for cosmetic reasons, but haven't found a one I like to play more than my Olympic.

[Caleb]

We have an older Breedlove A-style in our family. Great mandolin. I cannot recall the year model.

I might be wrong about this, but I think the odd headstock shapes (and odd shape overall on the non-A-style models) are a deal-breaker for a lot of players. The mandolin is seen as a "traditional" instrument, and the moment a maker veers off too far from the usual aesthetic, they have lost probably most of their potential buyers. Just look at all the great mandolins being made today in the same old boring brown sunburst finish (I own one of these). The people want this so the makers offer it.

I've seen the same thing with Seagull guitars: the odd headstock shape being the deal-breaker. I was with a friend once who was wanting a new guitar. He loved the sound and feel of the Seagull, but the headstock was the reason he didn't buy it.

[colorado_al]

I had expected that the value of the USA made Breedloves would actually go up when production went to China. I was certainly wrong about that. It seems that now that you can get a new, near identical looking, non-traditional, Chinese made mandolin from Breedlove, for $500-$800, most will not look twice at a used one for more than that. Even though the quality of the USA made mandolins is far better than the current Chinese made model, it seems that Two Old Hippies has devalued the Breedlove brand across the board by moving production overseas.

[mandomaybe]

thanks for the comment, Steve. I don't really know what I'm looking for. My Breedlove tends to be quiet, and so something with a little more oomph would be nice. I really liked a '29 Gibson A oval at Fiddler's Green in Austin when I was visiting there, $1500, but waited too long and it was gone. But that's around my price range.

[mandomaybe]

Think the comments made about the year of my instrument are correct. I remember first researching that when I bought it, but I don't know where I originally got the info, by serial number, and it was listed as made in 2003. Now that I'm considering selling it I emailed Breedlove to confirm my memory, and they said 1993. I think they're wrong, and my memory that it's 2003 is more likely correct.

[colorado_al]

thanks for the comment, Steve. I don't really know what I'm looking for. My Breedlove tends to be quiet, and so something with a little more oomph would be nice. I really liked a '29 Gibson A oval at Fiddler's Green in Austin when I was visiting there, $1500, but waited too long and it was gone. But that's around my price range.

Where in SoCal are you? If I were in LA/San Diego area, I'd make the 5 hour drive to Phoenix and play everything available in the $3000 and below range at The Mandolin Store. Get a good education of what you like and don't, and maybe take something home with you. Or after your visit keep an eye out on their page and on the Cafe classifieds.

My personal recommendation for a $1500 top price is the JBovier A5 for $900. Or if you want an F style, the F5 at $1600, if you can find the extra $100.
http://www.mandolins.ecrater.com/p/1...er-w-black-top
http://www.mandolins.ecrater.com/p/1...t-or-black-top

I think these are better than the Eastman and Kentucky models at the same prices.

What's your Breedlove serial number?
Check it against this
http://jedistar.com/breedlove/

Breedlove Serial Number System
Instruments built by the Breedlove Custom Shop from early 1999 onward will bear a sequential four digit serial number. We switched to this numbering system 209 instruments into 1999, starting with number 2000.

Prior to that, a five-digit system was utilized, with the first two digits denoting the year of manufacture, and the second three digits assigned sequentially by instrument completion date. For instance, an instrument with serial number 96-040 would have been the 40th instrument to be started in the 1996 calendar year.

2006: 8491* – ????
2005: 7500 – 8490
2004: 6445 – 7499
2003: 5161 – 6444
2002: 4071 – 5160
2001: 3218 – 4070
2000: 2631 – 3217
1999: 2000 – 2630

[Scott Rucker]

Mine has a 3 digit SN and is initialed by Kim Breedlove and Steve Henderson, all written in pencil.

[lflngpicker]

I am the new owner of a previously owned Breedlove Premier 00 mandolin. This is a 2014 carved, arched top, solid woods and USA built mandolin. I wanted an oval hole A style and found this for under $550. Additionally, I picked up a gorgeous Breedlove HSC on clearance. The Two Old Hippies organization has been such a help. Not only did they sell me this deluxe case for $59, but they send me the case candy and bridge tool I asked for as a gift. Great service and communication. Very professional and responsive. Here's the clincher: after I set up the action and intonation by adjusting the truss rod and the bridge, this mandolin plays and sounds great. The thickness of the body 1-13/16" (slightly thicker than most A Style USA mandolins) is similar to the Weber Gallatin A5 I owned that was also made since the Two Hippies acquisition. This mandolin is very similar and in my opinion stands up to the Weber Gallatin in quality, tone and set up. Yes, they are discontinued which affects value, which is exactly why I was drawn to it. Now that I have a Breedlove, I am so impressed with the great fretboard free of any buzzes that plays pitch true all the way up the neck on each course! I have the action med-low and it is comfortable. The 1-3/16" nut width, radiused board, fit and finish, tone woods quality, high quality tuners, soft to touch satin finish and cool modern looks (which I didn't realize how much I would like in person!) have made me a big Breedlove fan. I switched off with my Martin 0M-21 guitar at my gig Thursday and enjoyed singing with this resonant oval hole mandolin as my accompaniment. A USA made Breedlove is a great value for a domestic mandolin and will give you everything in tone, volume and playability of the other moderately priced ($1999-2500) USA mandolins I have owned.

[Caleb]

I am the new owner of a Breedlove Premier 00 mandolin. This is a 2014 carved, arched top, solid woods and USA built mandolin. I wanted an oval hole A style and found this for under $550. Additionally, I picked up a gorgeous Breedlove HSC on clearance. The Two Old Hippies organization has been such a help. Not only did they sell me this deluxe case for $59, but they send me the case candy and bridge tool I asked for as a gift. Great service and communication. Very professional and responsive. Here's the clincher: after I set up the action and intonation by adjusting the truss rod and the bridge, this mandolin plays and sounds great. The thickness of the body 1-13/16" (slightly thicker than most A Style USA mandolins) is similar to the Weber Gallatin A5 I owned that was also made since the Two Hippies acquisition. This mandolin is very similar and in my opinion stands up to the Weber Gallatin in quality, tone and set up. Yes, the are discontinued which affects value, which is exactly why I was drawn to it. Now that I have a Breedlove, I am so impressed with the great fretboard free of any buzzes that plays pitch true all the way up the neck on each course! I have the action med-low and it is comfortable. The 1-3/16" nut width, radiused board, fit and finish, tone woods quality, high quality tuners, soft to touch satin finish and cool modern looks (which I didn't realize how much I would like in person!) have made me a big Breedlove fan. I switched off with my Martin 0M-21 guitar at my gig Thursday and enjoyed singing with this resonant oval hole mandolin as my accompaniment. A USA made Breedlove is a great value for a domestic mandolin and will give you everything in tone, volume and playability of the other moderately priced ($1999-2500) USA mandolins I have owned.

Cool mandolin (great photos too). Play it in good health.

Here is a pic of my wife's Breedlove:

[lflngpicker]

Cool mandolin (great photos too). Play it in good health.

Here is a pic of my wife's Breedlove:

Hey Caleb, To be honest, I like the peg head on your wife's Breedlove a bit better than mine. I always liked that shark tooth look, or whatever it might be called. That is a great looking A5! Nice sunburst.

[j. condino]

Another useful measurement for dating Breedloves is in 2001 founder Steve Henderson left the company. They had a stack of already signed labels, so they just used them up for several hundred instruments. Then there were transition models with Kim's signature written above Steve's printed name and then when they ran out, they switched to exclusively Kim by mid 2002.

As a former employee, I can say with confidence that the number one issue with that whole company was debt. They were a west coast company. They wanted to be a west coast company. They had zero interest in the crusty crusty same old same old brown sunburst thing. If you live in Kentucky then there was already almost no way you would buy one but if you lived in California, Oregon, or Washington there were plenty of people who that was the only thing you wanted. I think they sold about 25,000 total instruments.

When they designed the mandolin line it was specific to a manufacturing process from someone who had extensive knowledge in building traditional instruments and the effort was on building a decent sounding and playing instrument without the hassles of handcarving and binding 400 scrolls a year. It was a whole process designed from the ground up step by step to produce a specific outcome. For its time, it was a very efficient system. A new, inexperienced worker could come in and within a few weeks be making two complete mandolins every day before lunchtime....for $7 an hour living in a ski town where a 700 square foot house costs $400,000....Needless to say, in a shop of approx. 18 people, some years they would blow through 35 employees because they could not afford the privilege of working there. The moral and quality of employment there was worse than all of the other bad jobs I have ever had combined.

They were started on an overextended line of consumer credit in the '90s, got the business running but only paid the interest at something like 24% a month. When I worked for them the original $100k loan had grown to around $900,000 years later and it was constant crisis- around $28,000 per month before they could pay the electric bills or make payroll or buy wood or any basic needs. They went bust several times; all of the founders including the bearer of the company name went back to work for Bob Taylor and at one point the whole place was run by a dip$#!& from Pepsi whose only experience was running a bottled water company and called the neck of a guitar the "handle". Kim Breedlove is a great builder and very nice man who came into things later and became the public figurehead. The number one thing he taught me was that the ability to build a nice instrument has nothing to do with operating a company that manufactures instruments...

That said, they occasionally produced some amazing instruments. Most of what they produced dd not go out into stores or the public. It went to rock stars and movie stars as the place was run as sort of a production custom shop; only about 20% went out where you could see it- most was pre-sold. The Mackenzie was my favorite model and the first all black Orca for the NAMM show was great. I've been trying to run into serial number 4072 again since the day I built it.

[jefflester]

Hey Caleb, To be honest, I like the peg head on your wife's Breedlove a bit better than mine. I always liked that shark tooth look, or whatever it might be called. That is a great looking A5! Nice sunburst.

As Breedlove owner you should know better than to call it an A5. That's an OF!

[lflngpicker]

As Breedlove owner you should know better than to call it an A5. That's an OF!

So true. I may have been wrong to assume the generic designation of an A style with F hole is an A5. The official model is referred to as an OF. Am I still wrong to refer to it as an A5-- in other words-- a great looking A5 in a world of many brands producing an A5, though it may be specifically an A5 called an OF? Educate me, please.

[Dagger Gordon]

I played a couple of new ones in one of our local shops in Inverness quite recently but I can't remember what models they were.
One was pretty good I thought, while another (at about £100 less) was very unremarkable.

That's pretty much in line with my own fairly limited experience. I know a couple of guys who play Breedlove guitars (one also has a mandolin but I've never seen it) which they really like. I have played one of them occasionally and find it ok but actually quite heavy.

However, I wouldn't write their recent stuff off, but it would definitely be a question of trying an instrument out first.

[colorado_al]

One of the shops around here just started carrying the new Breedlove mandolins. They had 5 on the wall when I was there last week and played them all. All of them are poor imitations of the Breedlove USA made instruments.

[j. condino]

I was always told that the O model designation was because the use of A was trademarked when they started building them. The "K" model was simple- it was for Kim.