Kala, Blueridge, GDAE, and other questions...

[instrumentality]

Hi all,

I have a couple questions about tenor guitars - I know I want one; I play fiddle and mandolin and want something quieter than my fiddle (small condo, two kids) and more guitar-like than my mando. I've tried many times to motivate myself to learn regular guitar chords but I'm really not going to do that anytime soon, so I plan to tune the tenor GDAE. I figure I can noodle on new tunes and strum along to songs my preschooler is learning. I'm down to 2 options:

1. New Kala tenor guitar; on sale for $199 w/ free shipping directly from Kala
2. Used Blueridge BR-60T on craigslist; $300 including hard case and pro setup

I was considering getting a Blueridge BR-40T online for around $450 new, but then the BR-60T showed up on Craigslist and from what I understand they're the same except for the laminate. I'm not sure which scale length is better - the Blueridge might be a stretch for me given my experience playing an Irish bouzouki recently (scale length similar to a regular guitar), but I've heard the short scale on the Kala can be tough for GDAE whereas the Blueridge does OK and is louder. Otherwise, I like the looks and size of the Kala better. I wish I could compare in person but no local stores have tenors.

Any opinions on relative quality and tradeoffs for the price, or how hard it might be to resell either if I decide it's not the guitar for me? I'd actually consider getting both and playing them for awhile to figure out which one makes more sense, given that the combined price is only a few dollars more than a new BR-40T, so maybe I'm just looking for someone to tell me if that's a really crazy idea. ;-)

[bbcee]

Hi all,

I'd actually consider getting both and playing them for awhile to figure out which one makes more sense, given that the combined price is only a few dollars more than a new BR-40T, so maybe I'm just looking for someone to tell me if that's a really crazy idea. ;-)

Hi Gianna, what a fantastic idea!! Sorry about that.

I have a laminate BR40 dreadnought acoustic that I bought just because the sound was so great. Years later, it still sounds good to me.

RE: scale length: I was looking for an old Regal to come up for sale (21" length) when a Harmony 1201T (23") came across my path. It has issues related to construction, but tuned to GDAE, it has a warm wonderful sound that I can't get enough of. As I have small hands, I started out by playing it in GDAE but capo'd up two frets, which puts it closer to 21". As time went on I found I was playing it in GDAE uncapo'd more & more. It just took my hands a while to get used to the stretches. Playing chords is really nice, melody work can be slightly challenging.

I posted a video of Harvest Home in the Newbies Group that features it playing rhythm & melody, which will give you an idea of one person's interpretation.

I do think the idea of buying both is a good one - I don't think you'll have a problem moving either along. I also think certain tenors take to GDAE better then other, so I expect a full report!

[OneChordTrick]

How short is the scale on the Kala? My octave Mandola has a 20" scale and is fine in GDAE. I also find the fingering easier than the previous one that I had with a 22" scale

[bruce.b]

I've owned both the Kala and Blueridge. I really liked the Kala, in CGDA. It's excellent for the price, played great and looked cool too. I thought it struggled just a bit in GDAE. It's OK, but on mine the low end wasn't nwhat I wanted. It has a sweet, beautiful tone in CGDA, but I much prefer GDAE and never played it.
The Blueridge sounds fine in either tuning. It plays really well and is an excellent deal pricewise. I'd go with the Blueridge for GDAE and the Kala for CGDA. I preferred how the Kala looked over the Blueridge, but both seemed well made.

[bradinbrooklyn]

I have the kala and think it's a tremendous deal and arguably a cooler look than the blueridge. Agree gdae could be a stretch though if you're heart set on it. Maybe with heavier string set? I planned to try it but I think you'll find cgda is where it belongs and it's not a stretch to learn it when you know gdae.

[Steve Ostrander]

I think that the br60t is a good deal at $300 and would sound better in GDAE. I had a br40t tuned GDAE and it sounded really good.

[Seonachan]

Here's a demo of a Kala tuned GDAE. But note it took some setup work (saddle compensation etc.) to get it to sound that good. The smaller body size and scale length on the Kala will definitely limit its output; if it's bass-y boom you're after, you'd be better off with the Blueridge for sure. But many people like the more banjo-like punch that the smaller bodies produce. (Not saying it actually sounds like a banjo, if that would turn you off.)

[instrumentality]

How short is the scale on the Kala? My octave Mandola has a 20" scale and is fine in GDAE. I also find the fingering easier than the previous one that I had with a 22" scale

It's 21.5" (the blueridge is about an inch and a half longer at almost 23")
Can I ask what gauge strings you are using?

[Cornfield]

At $199 the Kala seems like a steal. If you tune CGDA the chord shapes are the same, just shifted over 1 string.

[OneChordTrick]

It's 21.5" (the blueridge is about an inch and a half longer at almost 23")
Can I ask what gauge strings you are using?

Hi. I'm using .014/.022w/.032w/.045w, that's the manufacturer's (Ashbury) recommendation.

[instrumentality]

I posted a video of Harvest Home in the Newbies Group that features it playing rhythm & melody, which will give you an idea of one person's interpretation.

This is great! Thanks so much for sharing - nice playing and the tenor and mandolin sound awesome together. Can I ask how you made the video? I'd love to do some similar stuff with fiddle and backup.

[instrumentality]

Here's a demo of a Kala tuned GDAE. But note it took some setup work (saddle compensation etc.) to get it to sound that good. The smaller body size and scale length on the Kala will definitely limit its output; if it's bass-y boom you're after, you'd be better off with the Blueridge for sure. But many people like the more banjo-like punch that the smaller bodies produce. (Not saying it actually sounds like a banjo, if that would turn you off.)

This sounds great also! Thanks. I think I may just end up with both of them, since I can't retune either without purchasing...

[Tim N]

If you go for the Kala, tuned CGDA, then you'll use exactly the same chord shapes as for GDAE (which you already know, I guess from mandolin), but A becomes D, whilst D becomes G, and G becomes C. Once your mind adjusts, and if you enjoy the keys that sound best with this tuning then you might be happy with CGDA tuning. Have you still got the bouzouki? I find it's quite nice to move between the 2 tunings and hear how chord sequences take on a different character.

[Dolamon]

Gianna, for a fiddler, the CGDa tuning is a Viola tuning. There are a lot of things which you can do with it which just sound - um - richer on a C tuned instrument. One other point, if you capo a C tuned instrument on the second fret, you end up with DAEb which makes all the traditional tunes just fall to hand, just play one string over. As for chording, you will easily have access to a lot of traditional jazz and even the great American song book (Gerschwin, Porter, Kern etc.) which is a lot of fun to play. Anyway you choose, you will enjoy yourself.

Dion

[crisscross]

I have a Kala and a Blueridge BR 40-T both tuned CGDA.
Like Dolamon, I think this tuning is more versatile.
You can play
melodies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj8pPp8_R-w
chord melody https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZMg06C6DRc
or just chordal backup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkC73rQl_7Y
With GDAE, the chords' voicings seem a little to low to me.
As for Kala vs. Blueridge, the Kala to my ear sounds better playing melodies, while the Blueridge is at an advantage just strumming chords...

[fox]

I think you need both really
21" scale for CGDA & 23" for GDAE.
Blueridge make fantastic guitars, I have a top end six string that is superb & a BR40T that is very well made if a bit too solid but looks fantastic & sounds pretty good.

[bruce.b]

As far as tuning, it depends on what you want to play, what your guitar handles well, and personal preference. My Herb Taylor sounds great in GDAE. I love playing chords on it, and for me I think chords sound richer and more powerful in GDAE if the guitar can handle the tuning well. Chords in CGDA sound sweet and beautiful, but for me they lack the low end drive I love, plus in GDAE I can play chords up the neck and get that sweet, higher pitched sound.

If you are primarily playing fiddle tunes I think it's a no brainer to tune GDAE. Capoing on two in CGDA wouldn't work for me at all. I constantly use the G string in GDAE to play harmony, plus some of the tunes I like go down on that string. If I was going to expand the range of my tenor with a 5th string it would be to add a lower range, higher wouldn't really give me anything.

If you are going to play early jazz perhaps it's a different story.

[fox]

Good points there Bruce although Gerry O Conner (possibly Irelands best know tenor banjo player) often tunes CGDA & I don't think you can beat CGDA for Christmas songs
That is why everybody needs at least two tenor guitars.

[instrumentality]

That is why everybody needs at least two tenor guitars.

Well I will have two, at least temporarily! The Kala is in transit (only a couple left so I couldn't wait) and I picked up the Craigslist BR-60T this afternoon. I love it so far!

Newbie questions: It's currently tuned CGDA. Is the C C3? (Is that middle C on the piano or not?) If I were to tune it GDAE would the G be below that? And if I wanted to capo a GDAE tenor back up to CGDA, which fret would I put the capo on? (not saying it's ideal to do these things but I'm trying to understand the instrument better...I'm used to fiddle tunes so I think mostly in melody, not chords, and the mandolin is far from my primary instrument so I'm not so great with frets either...)

Also, pic for eye candy. The BR-60T is much prettier in person than in any photos I saw! I wasn't sure if I'd like its looks, since gloss finish isn't usually my thing and I liked the way the mahogany and black binding of the BR-40T looked in pics better (who knows, maybe I'd like the 40T even more than the 60T if I ever see one in person) but I'm super happy with my Craigslist deal so far. I strummed some songs this evening and I was surprised how much it sounded like a "regular" guitar! Chords are comfy but melodies feel like a bit of a stretch right now - I'll be curious to compare it to the Kala when that arrives. I'll try to upload some sound files at some point. Stay tuned.

[derbex]

I think it is middle C and the G is the one below that, if you us the same strings there will be a lot less tension and it might be a bit buzzy and not sound too good, my tenor banjo didn't when I tried it. You would capo at the 5th fret (same on a mandolin) to give you CGDA again.

HTH

[Escaped Cellist]

You're going to have a lot of fun with those guitars!

Another option to consider, though, especially since "quieter" is what you're after, is a soprano ukulele and the Aquila 30U string set for GDAE tuning. I have one and it's a great little instrument for those middle of the night awake-while-everyone-else-is-sleeping moments.

Regarding your tuning/capo questions, yes the G of the GDAE tuning will be a 4th lower than the C in the CGDA. You'd capo the 5th fret to get from GDAE to CGDA, and on your current CGDA tuning you can capo at the 7th to get GDAE.

The capo approach to switching tunings may not be absolutely sonically ideal, but it's a lot better than detuning the strings. As derbex pointed out above, if you use the same strings for both of these tunings you get really floppy loose tension that does not sound good. At least with the capo, you're getting string tension that feels right and sounds good. If Sierra Hull can capo her octave mandolin, I'm pretty sure the capo police are not going to come for you over a capo on your tenor guitar.

Have fun!

[instrumentality]

You're going to have a lot of fun with those guitars!
Another option to consider, though, especially since "quieter" is what you're after, is a soprano ukulele and the Aquila 30U string set for GDAE tuning. I have one and it's a great little instrument for those middle of the night awake-while-everyone-else-is-sleeping moments.

Funny, I have one too! I bought it because I wanted to take my mandolin on a trip abroad several years ago but couldn't fit it and didn't want to take the risk of traveling with my weber like that, so I got a lanikai soprano uke. At the time I had no idea what I was doing and just retuned the existing strings but I recently took it out and put the aquila set on it. I keep it at work! It's super fun. :-)

[instrumentality]

Um...another possibly naive question. Is the fretboard radiused on the BR-60T? I can't find any mention either way in any specs. When I look at it I think maybe I see the faintest radius (I know the kala is flat but I don't have it to compare). Actually, I don't really care, I just need to answer the question so I can get the right kind of capo. Anyone have a good suggestion for a tenor guitar capo? :-)

[GKWilson]

What a great option being able to try both guitars. Lots of fun there. You'll probably end up
with both tuned differently.
This was probably mentioned before but you will need to change the strings out to a heavier
set to achieve a good G tuning. This will include a little work on the bridge and nut to accept
the larger strings. Not a big deal.
I have a Breedlove Tenor. These were 'designed' to play gdae, with a longer scale [24 1/4"]
and larger body [OM]. After playing for awhile the longer scale was no problem. When I want
to play melody I slide the capo up to C [or even D]. Which makes it closer to Mandola scale. With the large body the volume and tone
are amazing. Therefore, I always side with the longer scale and bigger bodied guitars. It's like
you get two instruments in one.
Have fun.

[Chip Stewart]

Anyone have a good suggestion for a tenor guitar capo? :-)

I use a D'Addario Planet Waves NS Banjo/Mandolin capo for my Blueridge BR-60T and it works very well.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/acces...-mandolin-capo