1918 Gibson A needing repairs...

[dadsaster]

I'm thinking of purchasing this mandolin here: https://portland.craigslist.org/clc/...303905567.html

I'm wondering is someone more experienced can:

1 - verify this is likely a 1918 Gibson A

2 - estimate (roughly) what it might take and cost to repair this item

ALso, any info on how rare they are, the value of these, the playablity and tone etc. would be greatly appreciated.

[allenhopkins]

Think it's an A-1; don't believe the A models had a logo on the headstock. I had a 'teens A-1 40 years ago, and this looks like the same model; two purfling rings around the soundhole, same tailpiece. The pickguard's not original, probably was replaced during the refinish.

If the neck joint and the cross brace are both unglued, and there's perhaps an interior cleat used for crack repair that's let go as well, you'll probably spend more than the $400 the seller's asking to get it fixed. If your total costs were, say, $800, you'd be in the market range for a playable-condition 'teens A-1. And it's sort of a "pig in a poke," 'cause you don't know what it'll sound like when it's repaired.

IMHO it's a "take a chance" purchase. I'd try to bargain with the seller, see if you could get it for $100 less; it's no use to the seller in its present condition.

As to rarity, playability and tone -- not that rare, there are quite a few 1915-1923 Gibson A models (A, A-1, A-2 etc.) around; they're what we call "paddle heads" due to the shape of the headstock, and they don't have truss rods. They're as playable as they can be set up to be; they have "beefy" necks, larger than the later models that were reinforced with neck truss rods. I like the way they sound: not too bright, kind of mid-range-y, lots of sustain. You can find quite a few on the market if you Google "Teens Gibson A-1 for sale," usually, prices just both sides of $1K.

[Tobin]

Personally, I wouldn't buy this as a first vintage Gibson. It's probably better off as a basket case for someone more experienced in these.

Even if the label is missing, the seller should be able to look up inside the body and find the factory order number (FON) stamped at the neck block. That will help pin down the age.

As for collectibility, this one has a cheapo modern pick guard and an obvious refinish job. That, with the structural issues, means it isn't ever going to be worth much. $400 probably is a fair price to the right person, but it's going to take some work to get playable again.

I also don't think that case is original.

Why in Hades do sellers post such tiny photos? There's no digital camera in the world that takes photos that small; he had to intentionally downsize them. Why? *shakes fist in the air*

[Ray(T)]

Those tuners aren't from 1915 - worm over didn't appear until 1924 - and that's not the original case.

[G7MOF]

Couldn't the tuners have been put on upside down?

[mrmando]

Those are much later tuners, probably installed during the 1990s repair/refinish.

The FON is the only way to establish what year it was made. If it were 1918, the original finish would be Sheraton brown. Because it has been refinished, we don't really know.

It is probably worth the $400 being asked and not much more. Gluing it all back up is probably a matter of $200 to $300 depending on who does it, but we don't know what else might be wrong with it, so it's hard to make a repair estimate without an in-hand inspection.

With all original hardware, original finish, and an original hardshell case, and in good playable condition (none of which is applicable here), a 1918 A1 is worth somewhere between $1000 and $1200 in a private sale. Old Gibsons are not "rare" -- hundreds of them are kicking about, and another one falls out of a closet somewhere in the U.S. every day. We can't say anything about this instrument's playability and tone until it is put back together. A teens A-style that is well maintained and properly set up can be quite responsive and sound just lovely.

[Jeff Mando]

Would be a good deal, if you can do the work yourself, IMHO. If you have to pay somebody you will end up with as much money in it as an all original one would cost and it would still be refinished with some non-original parts.

[mrmando]

Upon further reflection:

Refinishing cuts an instrument's value by a third if it's a good job and by half if it's a bad job. This is a bad job.
Non-original replacement parts also reduce the value.
Not having an original case reduces the value.
Being in pieces and needing major work reduces the value.

It occurs to me that the refinish alone would bring this down to $500 even if there were nothing else wrong with it. So given all the other problems I think it's overpriced at $400.

If you bought this for $400 and put $300 into having it repaired, you would never be able to sell it for $700.

[dadsaster]

Thanks, everyone. I think it's a pass for me this time. I really appreciate the input.