Capo?

[Cochiti Don]

I play with a couple of retired folks who sing and play guitar, bluegrass style.
Her vocal range is good but not unlimited. So if we like a song in G she might need to sing it two frets up. Rather than transpose, we all just use a capo.
I've never seen a mando player use one, so I'm a little embarrassed to confess this. I'm still a newbie and a previous guitar player, so I'm not facile in transposing. Should I strive to get out of capo use?

[Frankdolin]

Yes. IMHO as long as you play and have fun that's ALL that matters. However if you want to learn to play better and correctly, practice without the capo. Use a simple song you've memorized and play it in different keys. Or better yet just pick a fret and start there.

[Mandolin Cafe]

Mandolin Cafe's Rule #1 - music is for having fun.

Rule #2 - see Rule #1.

If it works for you, do it. If you want to expand your knowledge, playing in A is pretty darn easy as all of the open strings are in the key if you're plucking a few lead notes in the process. Learn a few closed fingered chords and you're good to go for them as well. Ab is where you'll run into the challenge but it can be done with some time and effort, but that wasn't the question.

Still, wait for it, wait for it... it's likely the capo police will be along shortly telling you it's blasphemy. It's not. I don't use one but that's part of the fun for me personally. I like playing in all keys. I like to have fun.

Having fun. That's the whole idea. Let that be your guide.

[UsuallyPickin]

Capo Police .... Hmmmmm ... Well..... Using one isn't bad per se. I would encourage you to learn about your mandolin to the point that using a capo was a tone choice rather than a lack of transposing skills choice. But you may not be interested in doing that. For reference a banjo capo works best , not the elastic kind..... R/

[Mandoplumb]

A capo should be used to enhance the sound ideally, not to be a cheater. Thus in bluegrass it is used on guitar and banjo to allow for the use of more " open" strings because in bluegrass that "sounds" better. The opposite is true in regard to a bluegrass mandolin, the capo raises an already sharp high pitch. Having said all that if the capo makes Rule no. 1 apply then by all means use one but work on making rule no. 1 without capo. In most cases your music will sound better. IMHO

[Tobin]

Still, wait for it, wait for it... it's likely the capo police will be along shortly telling you it's blasphemy.

Just for the record, the real capo police don't bother posting on internet chat boards. They wait in the parking lot to ambush you when you leave a jam, then they rough you up and confiscate your capo.

In all seriousness, though, I think most mandolin players try to avoid using a capo if they can. Let's be honest: using a capo sucks. Especially on a tiny neck like the mandolin has. It's just in the way and it kills a lot of volume and tone. In an ideal world, we'd all be capable of playing in any key without it. But there are some cases where it does make sense, like if you have a specific fingering strategy for a melody that depends on using certain strings, or if you have chord shapes that you prefer. It's not blasphemy by any means to use a capo.

[Mark Wilson]

Should I strive to get out of capo use?

If you're just strumming chords I would say strive to not use the capo. Chords on the mandolin (especially 3 finger chords - muting the E strings) are pretty simple with repeating patterns.

Playing melody notes in new keys to accommodate vocalist? That takes some time to get going for most. There are some closed position (no open notes) patterns I use (novice still) that are kinda simple once you see how they work. They can be used in several keys moving up the fretboard.

I'd still probably use the capo til you start to get the hang of something new.

[fatt-dad]

the capo just makes sense on some of those complicated pieces by Bach that he wrote in such off keys!

Then again, I'm having fun and know my limitations!

f-d

[Ky Slim]

The capo police department was recently closed due to lack of fun-ding. But have no fear, the bluegrass police are on capo patrol now.

[Mandolin Cafe]

Short-term memory, dear readers.

This forum is filled with red faced ranting capo discussions from years ago. At the moment it is apparently not as in vogue as it might be. Happy to link to discussions from 1996 and earlier on CoMando when it was discussion de juor.

You can already see the line forming above for training purposes for certified capo critic. Weak attempts though. I'd suggest more practice as amateur critic. "A capo sucks," "lack of transposing skills."

It's all so important because the stakes are so low.

Carry on. You will.

[Steve Repinec]

I have been playing for a few years and have not used a capo even though there are times when it would be really helpful. However, I think I have learned a lot about music when I have had to transpose a break. I have gotten to the point where I can sometimes transpose on the fly during a jam. I have also modified breaks on some songs into closed positions so that I can easily change key, for example between G and A. So my advice is to use the capo to have fun but still work on transposing to continue to improve your playing.

[mugbucket]

It's recently come to my attention that it's also uncool to use one for a string change...

Whatever works for you my friend. Let it rip.

[CES]

I have one in my cases, and will pull it out if I'm playing with others and can't transpose on the fly. But, as I've learned more closed position chords and also improved transposition skills (especially when I picked up bass), it's rare that I need to use it.

So, use it if you need/want to so that you can continue to make music, but work on the theory/fretboard knowledge so you can eventually use it as a tool rather than a crutch. Highly recommend the FFCP exercises at Jazzmando.com as a launching point...

[Cochiti Don]

Thanks kind folks. I'm using it now because of the little time left to learn a number of songs for our gig. I really don't like it and I think I can wean myself given time. Very helpful comments, thanks again

[JeffD]

If you do capo, put some bright green or yellow paint on it, so it can be seen in the back row. Do it with pride, don't be shy.Tell 'em, this is how we recorded it for the album.

[catmandu2]

"A capo sucks"...

https://youtu.be/CQspEjoPIik

[David Leone]

Hi, I'm new here and just getting my feet wet in some threads.

I use a capo since, 1) mandolin is not my main instrument and 2) I like the open string sounds. I totally get the view that it is better to not rely on a capo, and one day I hope I will be able to get around on my mandolin well enough to not use one - but for now, it is a time saver and convenience.

Sorry, Officer, please just let me off with a warning .. .

[allenhopkins]

OMG, not another capo thread. And why do I feel compelled to jump in? Can't help it...

If you work with a vocalist, he/she may well say, "I really like the accompaniment you worked out in the key of D, but it's just a little low for my voice; can we take it up a half-step to E-flat?" And yes you can, but your accompaniment doesn't work as well without the open strings and sliding double-stop harmonies you worked out in D.

So, you reach surreptitiously into the pocket of your case, pull out a capo, and slip it behind the first fret, and you're good to go. You feel good, the vocalist feels good, the sun shines and the little bluebirds sing. Only a few mando-purists are offended, and what do you care?

Plus, in a couple years you take up the octave mandolin, and find out that every octave mandolin player uses a capo frequently. So do mandola and mandocello players, often.

The short scale does make capo use a bit more challenging; you can reduce your fretboard length drastically, and you can encounter intonation issues. But those are reasons for careful positioning and judicious use, not for an outright ban.

I may use a capo on a mandolin once or twice annually, but I have no compunctions about using one when I feel it's needed. It's not a crutch, it's a tool.

[Tobin]

OMG, not another capo thread. And why do I feel compelled to jump in? Can't help it...

Members here have requested a sticky thread for the great capo query, but it was refused. So yeah, every time it comes up, we have to go through the discussion. I guess it's important to keep discussing it and re-hashing it year after year, and then being berated for it.

All of your points are spot-on, in my view. As a mandola player, I don't hesitate to slap on a capo to change keys. My only real objection to it on the mandolin (and the reason I said "using a capo sucks") is because it's just awkward and doesn't work that well on a small mandolin like it does on larger instruments such as banjo, guitar, OM, and even mandola. When I capo a mandolin, I'm always running into it with my hand. But as has been said so many times, it is indeed a tool that has its uses. It can turn into a crutch, but that's up to the player to contend with.

[Paul Kotapish]

Yep, it's great to be able to play flexibly and comfortably in all keys, but there are unarguably specific tones and open-string drones that only a capo will allow in certain keys. Use the tool without hesitation.

Never complain. Never explain.

[Mandobart]

The reason I choose not to use a capo is, as stated before, it further limits an already short neck on the mandolin. In the case of moving a song from G to A, it's pretty easy to just play the song in A. Now when playing with somone who insists in playing a song in C# (7 sharps!) a capo makes sense. (Makes a lot more sense to me to just play it in C or D, though)...

[Camp]

I remember one of my old friends used a babylookin' capo on his mandolin sometimes. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

[ralph johansson]

I play with a couple of retired folks who sing and play guitar, bluegrass style.
Her vocal range is good but not unlimited. So if we like a song in G she might need to sing it two frets up. Rather than transpose, we all just use a capo.
I've never seen a mando player use one, so I'm a little embarrassed to confess this. I'm still a newbie and a previous guitar player, so I'm not facile in transposing. Should I strive to get out of capo use?

Perhaps a better question is: "Should I strive to get out of capo dependence?". A capo has its uses for various special effects, e.g., crosspicking, but you will easily get stuck in certain patterns if you rely on a capo to reduce everything to a limited number of keys. The late John McGann used a capo for some special effect at a contest (that he won), but he also said that "the mandolin is not really about open strings".

Also, it won't help if the singer wants a lower key. And, as I've said before, the more keys you know in first position, the more you can do within each of them, and the more you understand their relationships, and the better you are prepared for at least the standard modulations (halfstep up, major third up, minor third down). Which, to my mind, adds to the fun. The key of E isn't just C raised two whole steps. Ultimately it's a question of goals (a didactic, rather than moral, issue) and only you can decide them. And there are various routes towards these goals.

[ralph johansson]

Now when playing with somone who insists in playing a song in C# (7 sharps!) a capo makes sense. (Makes a lot more sense to me to just play it in C or D, though)...

Unless you want some effects involving open strings, such as crosspicking or playing one course open and sliding into that same pitch on the next lower course, it makes more sense to think of C# as Dd, five flats. Just pull your D shapes back one halfstep.

[stevedenver]

Do what you like.

Its a tool, not a catechism.


I can play in any key sans capo. Transposing, often well, on the fly, (unless the guitarist is capoed and the changes get fast and complex.)

Certain keys can need a mental reboot. I seem to hate C for certain songs, albeit irrelevant to this post. Many women sing in Ab. If my brain is disconnected, those little side dots beckon me to A out of habit.

Like allen, sometimes i use one. But, frankly, its a banjo capo ( no need for a mando capo due to rare usage), and its a pita as it can interfere with my grip near it.

Fwiw, i find zero loss of sustain or sound.*

If i want open string sound in a certain key capos cant be beat. *They dont work well too high up the neck, as things rapidly become plinky and cramped.