PLEK'ing a Mandolin

[Al Trujillo]

I never heard of the PLEK machine until tonight. Is it something done on mandolins as well?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kv6KMwCEkI

[Loubrava]

No the necks are to short.

[Bertram Henze]

Good to know these guitars are built by robots.

[mirwa]

Some good things exist about the plek, (I do not have one), it measures the frets under tension and then machines away just the high spots of the frets, so you get a fret levelled guitar with minimal material removal.

What I don't like, for an operator to use a plek machine takes no skill, they put instrument in, machine saids adjust truss rod, they scan the instrument and then remove strings, so the skill of the operator is able to adjust a truss rod as told and remove refit strings, for this they charge around 250 dollars to do the job, and it takes around 15 minutes, a highly skilled luthier with years of experience takes around 45 minutes to do the job and charges around 100 dollars.

So using the plek IMO should be cheaper than getting the skilled tradesman to do the job, but it's not, it's an opportunity to rip the customer off.

Steve

[Tavy]

So using the plek IMO should be cheaper than getting the skilled tradesman to do the job, but it's not, it's an opportunity to rip the customer off.

It's not a rip off when you consider the cost of the machine... some serious investment needed there, when you could do the same thing with minimal tools... but a lot more skill required as you say. BTW I'd say that 45 minutes to level and dress, adjust truss rod and generally setup is very optimistic - I hope to get everything done in 2 hours, but 3 or 4 are not uncommon in "difficult" cases - usually the cheaper or vintage instruments that are in a horrible state to start with!

[Mandoplumb]

It's not a rip-off because of the expense of the equipment. Sometime ago we decided that cash and quickness over rode skill and knowledge. So many things that we used to learn and develop skills for we now' delegate to a computer. I'm old enough to remember when a man used a bubble balance to balance your car tires, cost was $1 or included in price of the tire then came the computer balance at $7 or $8 a tire. It was supposed to be for the consumers benefit, was so much better, but I've been down the road at 100 mph with tires balanced by a man that knew how to balance with a bubble, smooth as silk. The balancing machine allowed a man with no skills to balance a tire. We paid $28 dollars so the tire merchant wouldn't have to train a man how to do his job. Will there come a time when the only fret level job can be done by a machine because no one really knows how. This machine will not do a better job than a skilled man but it can replace the skill, just step right up and pay you dollars

[HoGo]

You folks forget that machine can do just what is programmed, nothing else.
When I get instrument I diagnose the whole thing for possible problems. I check important joints if all is solid. Before I level frets I check them all for loose frets or frets not properly seated and fix that first only then comes the simple work that a machine can do faster than me. without skilled luthier /operator the machine can have good results only on new and preblem-free instruments.

[lenf12]

+1 Adrian, one still needs to be able to diagnose the problem before implementing the solution, whether by man or by machine. A skilled luthier can dial in on a problem pretty quickly but may take 2 to 4 hours (or more) to correct it. It's the nature of the work, to get it done right.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Gail Hester]

I respect the manufacturers that have made the investment in this equipment and show the desire and dedication to make their instruments as good as they can be. However, I have had the opportunity to work on a number of new, high end acoustic guitars that had been “ PLEKed” and in every case they needed setup and fret work to play cleanly. There are a lot of factors in play, things change, money can't buy you love, etc.

[Mandoplumb]

Y'all are making my point. A machine can't do as good of a job, but with the proper advertisement and the fact that we want it now I fear that this is what is coming. Try to get a dining table and chairs hand made now or for that matter kitchen cabinets. Machines do just about all and all are so much junk, but I can go to the store that I've heard so much about on TV and buy them and bring them home that day.

[Marty Jacobson]

Y'all are making my point. A machine can't do as good of a job, but with the proper advertisement and the fact that we want it now I fear that this is what is coming. Try to get a dining table and chairs hand made now or for that matter kitchen cabinets. Machines do just about all and all are so much junk, but I can go to the store that I've heard so much about on TV and buy them and bring them home that day.

This is not the fault of automation. This is the fault of people prioritizing features over construction quality. If you look at industries where construction quality is actually important (medical devices, aerospace, racing components) you will find that the automated production processes provide extremely good quality surpassing what you could afford to pay an individual to make a comparable part. I use automation extensively in my process, but it is part of a very hands-on process. And there are some situations where automation is far superior to human operators. Driving is a prime example of this. Humans stink at driving. Maybe a few rally drivers can consistently outperform a self-driving car, but even that top-performing human driver is out of action in heavy fog or other low visibility conditions where the car can keep on going safely due to better sensors than our jelly-ball eyes and distraction-prone brains.

[mirwa]

It's not a rip off when you consider the cost of the machine... some serious investment needed there

I agree and dis-agree. Most modern luthiers have cnc equipment, I have skills and overheads, we dont increase our price because we have this equipment, this equipment saves us time and in doing so allows us to do other jobs whilst its working, this makes us money.

I believe its offensive to charge someone upwards of 4 times more for doing less work.

One of the cnc machines in my shop cost me 125000 dollars, should I now charge every job I do in my shop by 4 times more.

This is theory that those that are unskilled and buy a plek machine use.

Now do not get me wrong, I think the plek machine is a good idea and this is coming from a luthier who does luthiery work every day, but I think its offensive the price that they have set for doing said work, when the skill required to operate is very little.

Just my bitch on the whole plek thing.

Steve

[JEStanek]

Cue John Henry.

Jamie

[sunburst]

Cue John Henry.

Jamie

I'll die with my fret file in my hand, Lord Lord...

[Jeff Mando]

I'll die with my fret file in my hand, Lord Lord...

Agreed. Why should I spend $100K to replace my straight edge, fret file, and Sharpie?

[jim simpson]

Do plek'd instruments not require re-crowning, and if so, how does that get done?

[HoGo]

Do plek'd instruments not require re-crowning, and if so, how does that get done?

The grinding disc is grooved like a crowning file.

[Loubrava]

I agree and dis-agree. Most modern luthiers have cnc equipment, I have skills and overheads, we dont increase our price because we have this equipment, this equipment saves us time and in doing so allows us to do other jobs whilst its working, this makes us money.

I believe its offensive to charge someone upwards of 4 times more for doing less work.

One of the cnc machines in my shop cost me 125000 dollars, should I now charge every job I do in my shop by 4 times more.

This is theory that those that are unskilled and buy a plek machine use.

Now do not get me wrong, I think the plek machine is a good idea and this is coming from a luthier who does luthiery work every day, but I think its offensive the price that they have set for doing said work, when the skill required to operate is very little.

Just my bitch on the whole plek thing.

Steve

Well said, Here's my pleking experience as a guy looking for a fret job on a guitar about a year ago. I went into a well known shop who have the machine which I never heard of until that day. They look over my ax and tell me they can do the job with the pleker and quote me what I think is an outrageous price and ask them if they cant just do it the old fashioned way ? They hem & haw tell how great and accurate there machine is and how it will make my guitar play and sound great if I want the job done right I need to have them plek it. I decline and they tell me they can look over the guitar see if needs neck adj. clean it up and put new strings on it for about 90-110 bucks. I walked out of there with guitar in hand shaking my head. I think because they bought the machine they need to use it and don't want to do the hand work with there machine just sitting. If they told me the plek was gonna cost maybe 125-150 I would have done it but they were double that. I won't go back there because of the hard sell on the pleking. I guess besides the high price for the consumer the Luthier shop feels they need to use there machine while there letting there trade suffer.
Lou