violin top / back plate removal ???

[kkmm]

I watch this youtube and a few others, it looks so simple to remove the top or back of a violin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRuDwXO1X-g

Wondering what kind of blade being used here. And is it true that the blade does not have to be heated up. The man just wiggle the blade like hell and separate the join !!!

I have the need to remove the back of a violin to repair some major cracks. One on top and one big one on the tail side.

Appreciate any input on this.

[kkmm]

Here are the photos showing 3 cracks: top, back and tail side





This accident happens a few hours ago while I am playing music in the church. The violinist hang his beloved violin on a cheap music stand (the foldable type, flimsy and cheap, about 10$). This music stand cannot even handle a folder properly.
I have repeatedly told him accident is just waiting to happen if he hang his violin this way.
He keep saying "I really want to stop playing music so when my violin broke, that's when I stop"
Maybe God is granting him his wish.

Fortunately, I was about 5 yards away when this happens.

[jim simpson]

A former violin teacher who did repairs told me how when I had a project to repair. He said get a hot cup of water and and eye dropper. Apply a drop of hot water on the ledge and start working the area with something thin but strong. I think I used a thin razor blade to get it started. It came off pretty easy and clean. I had to do some major cleating.

[David Houchens]

The top is set up to come off fairly easy. It should be glued on with weaker glue than the back. I'd take the top off.

[kkmm]

Thanks for the tips and that's exactly what I like to learn about. What kind of weak glue to be used for the top?

[pops1]

Thanks for the tips and that's exactly what I like to learn about. What kind of weak glue to be used for the top?

Always Hot hide glue, no exceptions, some will make it weaker by using more water.

[kjbllc]

wow, that is too bad.
That is an advanced repair job, you have a lot going on there, and what you don't see my be even more difficult. This is not a learning experience project. Its kind of like " i can put air in my tires , now I will completely rebuild my car engine with the help of your tube"

[John Kelly]

I use a small syringe with hot water in it and carefully drip the water along the seam. I use a very thin palette knife and work this into the join gently, easing the top (or back) off carefully. I agree with the last poster who says it is a very big job to tackle. Looks like the nstrument landed on the tail button and this has fractured the wood across the grain on the top. The crack along the grain looks fairly straightforward to repair but those cross cracks and the fractured rib will be an interesting repair job. Hot hide glue for violins!
Let us know how it goes.

[kkmm]

Thanks for the tip, I was able to remove the top place in about 15 mins by carefully following what I see in youtube video.
I was a bit puzzled at the neck join, it turns out, I only have to wiggle the top place side way and it pops out clean.
Yes, removing violin top is pretty easy compare to removing the back of a mandolin (which I did twice successfully).
I just re-glued these cracks with hot hide glue and clamp pretty quickly. Now, I will have to wait 24 hours.
And thanks for the tip on hot hide glued (diluted with more water to have a weaker glue). I don't really want to glue it so hard that it make future removal difficult.

Although I am an amateur, I have fixed, done setup about 80 guitars, a dozen mandolins, built one ukulele from scratch (except the sides that have been pre-bent). And I also installed "under the saddle" pickup for these ~80 guitars, mandolins too.

I love the challenge and the violin owner considered his violin to be history, and told me do whatever I can do with it. If it comes out good, he would be very happy. So I will do my best to make it playable again.

[kkmm]

I will not forget to glue a few cleats along the crack of the top, to ensure it won't separate in the future. I have read from this forum is this step may not be necessary.
So whatever recommendations I get, I will follow that.
I learned a lot from this forum in the last few years, thanks to the expertise and willingness to help of people in this forum.

[pops1]

I would put some support on the sides by the block, but I don't believe you need cleats on the top crack. Glue it together and it will be no different than the center seam. I repaired a violin a few years ago where the top was in 9 pieces, at least 5 other cracks, soundpost thru the top, many back cracks, block broken. I used no cleats and it sounds as good as it used to. The owner was very pleased. It is also still together and playing nicely.

[kkmm]

Thansk pops1, so I save an effort to glue the cleats.
The side cracks at the tail, looking pretty bad, but after glueing (closing the cracks AND glued to the tail block), it look good.
I believe this part will hold very strong thanks to the head block.

[John Kelly]

If you do go with cleats to reinforce the join, remember to put the grain of the cleats at right angles to the soundboard's grain direction.

You may want to add your signature and date to the inside of the soundboard before you close the instrument up again. It can be really interesting to see a history of earlier repairs pencilled on the innards. I was repairing a fiddle recently and the last repair had been done in another part of Scotland back in 1977! Those repairs were still as good as when they had been done, and in another forty years someone might be reading the date and signature I added in April of this year. I'll be 112 by then, so maybe not doing repairs.

[kkmm]

If you do go with cleats to reinforce the join, remember to put the grain of the cleats at right angles to the soundboard's grain direction.

Thanks for this suggestion. I knew about cleats and understand exactly why it should be done this way.
About the signature, I knew this violin has been repaired once, but no signature is inside except for the brand label.
Will ask the owner, if he is OK, I love to put my signature there.

[kkmm]

I finally got the repair completed. The owner is happy with the repair, except for the cracks are still visible and I told him I really don't know how to touch up finish to hide the cracks. If I do it, it will get worst, i.e., become even more noticeable.
The cracks feel smooth at the touch.

He resumes playing it at the church yesterday (I play bass guitar there).




This is my first attempt repairing a cracked violin. I learned a lot from this forum and from you tube videos.
Re-seating the sound post is cumbersome, but I did mark its original position to ensure I put it back at the same place.
And HHG is so easy to clean up afterward, I used it before but not to this extend.