The Search Continues... Part 2

[Nick Gellie]

You can really hear the thunk of the wood in the notes--and that's a good thing.

I agree Don, that Gilchrist will come along nicely.

[CES]

That sounds really good, even through iPad speakers...play it some more before you give up on it...

[Demetrius]

Thanks guys... Yeh, so the recording was done on an I-phone with tons of ambient noise around me so not the best example but it actually does capture its voice pretty good. The Gil is very powerful even at a light touch so it overdrives the little I-phone mic but you can still hear some of its tonal properties..

[Nick Gellie]

Thanks guys... Yeh, so the recording was done on an I-phone with tons of ambient noise around me so not the best example but it actually does capture its voice pretty good. The Gil is very powerful even at a light touch so it overdrives the little I-phone mic but you can still hear some of its tonal properties..

Demetrius you won't find a better mandolin than what you have got in your hands there. You can search all you like for another mandolin but with the right technique you can make that Gilchrist really sing. You are already on your way in another quest to make it sound the way you want it to.

I have bought back a Northfield model M mandolin that I sold two years ago. I have changed the set up on it. I did not replace the Engelmann Spruce top, just tweaked the bridge feet, the spacing and height of the strings at the nut. It is just wonderful to play now. I have learnt a thing or two in my own quest as an amateur luthier thanks to the folks on the cafe. I did not know that two years' ago. It is now a totally different mandolin. I might not get the sound and tone of your Gilchrist but I can come close.

You may find your own solution to your tonal issues in time.

[Demetrius]

I think I'm starting to realize something deep down inside. Actually I've known this all along but I guess I wasn't wanting to accept it. There is literally nothing wrong with with how the Gilchrist sounds. When I play it, I think to myself what more could I want? When I listen to other people play it, I think what more could I want? The problem is that I've played other mandolins like the Apitius that they had at the Emporium used for $6,500 I believe. I played it and thought to myself what more could someone want? I even played an Mt with a pretty one piece back and thought to myself. What more could someone want? Naturally everyone has different preferences, needs, and opinions but I'm agreeing with Nick. If you buy an instrument, get to know it and create a history with it. You could have a pretty darn good bond with so many mandolins you would've have initially walked away from. Not everyone is gonna agree to this and that is fine. I think the real situation with me is more about the $. This is why I have stopped looking at Dude F's , Moneteleone's, and Nuggets. Originally when deciding to part with the Gil my absolute #1 reason had nothing to do with the Gilchrist itself. It was to maybe get into something more in the $8-9k range or less. Then you know how it goes, you start looking online and seeing all those Nuggets and Dude's and I almost forgot why I was needing to part with the Gilchrist. My family is by no stretch hurting for money but I will say we have a lot of financial obligations which I won't get into here. The reality of it is I'm primarily a guitar player in most band settings. I love the mandolin so much but I'm far better at the guitar so that is what I more often get called to do. I'm sorry If Ive portrayed this in a way that shows any negative feelings towards the Gil. I had taken it off the market to really play it and truly enjoy it and I can honestly say there is nothing tonally, visually, and feel-wise that I don't like about it. In fact, there is also a good amount of sentiment between me and the Gil. The 100% driving force behind me parting with it is financial awareness for my particular situation.

Thanks,
Dem

[The Musician's Wife]

[barry]

Thanks for posting that. I think your feelings are shared by many wives of members on this forum.
In my opinion, the days of buying mandolins, and then selling them at a gain, are over for now. The market is slow. The interest that started with the whole "Brother Where Art Thou" wave, crested years ago.
Whatever you buy, should be considered a commitment.

B

[sblock]

The Musician's Wife is has every right to be concerned. It is probably not a very good idea to rationalize all these high-end mandolin purchases in terms of investments. That's not the proper way to think about them, IMO, especially if you're a guitar player with moderate mandolin skills playing in a minor Boston-area band. Yes, a handful of shops and individual collectors are able to remain profitable trading in rare instruments, but this is a business specialty that involves, among other things, wide-ranging expertise, a deep knowledge of the field, an established reputation, and (importantly) some very judicious acquisitions -- often from private parties, and not from other stores and collectors. The extra expense associated with buying a Gilchrist mandolin from a major store and then getting it re-topped, for example, is not likely to result in any profit in a near-term sale. Furthermore, an actual business doing a higher volume can afford to take some gambles and sustain the occasional loss along with the profits, whereas an individual buying and selling just a few instruments may suffer with these fluctuations. Furthermore, the individual buyer is not typically buying an instrument primarily with an eye towards its resale value, but rather to other qualities -- like his subjective notions about the tone -- rather than such things as condition, builder, provenance, etc., all of which tend to drive resale prices on high-end instruments. And let's not forget that a private buyer is usually paying for shipping and insurance for each new acquisition, which might not be re-couped.

A working musician can, and should, buy mandolins for other reasons. And there are many such valid reasons! But a musician should recognize full well that if he (or she) winds up churning through a good many instruments, in a seemingly endless spiral of purchases and sales, but fails to bond with any one of them, in a constant search for some "holy grail" of tone, then this is a QUEST, but it is not a valid business model! The likelihood is, unfortunately, that such a search will tie up a whole lot of capital and cost a whole lot of cash in the long run. If it ever ends, that is.

You can do it for the love of the quest, and you can do it if you have the income to spare from sources other than your band. But it's not a good idea to do it because it might be net-zero, or because you think it will result in small profits -- it probably won't. The odds of that are just not in your favor, and it will probably cost you a great deal of money.

[fatt-dad]

I've owned 40 mandolins. Made money on few, lost on others. In the end, it was tuition.

In the wake, I would have likely told myself to get a wide-nut MT (baked, please), paddle head and pancake. Having my Cohen in stead of the MT is fine by me. Same the Muth. That said, an MT would likely be in the same vein.

f-d

[Mandobar]

I was down at TME this morning. I now have sensory overload.


The Northfield Octave is very very nice. It has a big voice, and is very comfortable to play. The set up is wonderful. If you are in the market for a GBOM, don't wait too long. I don't think it will be there long.

The Campanella F is extremely nice. Joe really has something going on there. They get better and better.

I have been buying and selling instruments for 20 plus years. You win on some, you lose on most, but remember, you put some mileage on them.

[Nick Gellie]

Yip I can say for myself been there and done that. I certainly know how you feel. There comes a point when one's desire for another mandolin wanes and the object of desire just becomes another mandolin. It becomes so what.

Yes buying and selling can be stressful, particularly when selling takes a long time. And it it can become particularly stressful when one has been taken for a ride. That happened to me a couple of times. From that experience I want a prospective buyer to get what they want and feel good about it. Creating good karma becomes as important as the money side of it.

I remember the video of the Massachusetts mandolin tasting group not so long ago. There were a whole lot of very high and not so high end instruments being played. I really found it difficult to make out any difference between them. The differences were really subtle and perhaps more obvious to the player than to the audience.

The other night at an open Mike I got to try out a violin made by Gene Horner. It was an amazing resonant and tonally balanced instrument. I have tried out lots of good and not so good violins. I then showed Pete Denahy my German trade fiddle I had restored. He played it and was amazed how good it sounded. It was not in the same league as the Gene Horner violin. We both agreed that it a keeper. By the way this one is meant to be for my wife who also happens to be a musician. Pete suggested a couple of set up tips which I will implement. We had a good time comparing instruments. It is as like wine appreciation except we did not consume alcohol.

He is coming over this week to have his second fiddle looked at and play my instruments that have made and restored. So my main point is that the musical instrument appreciation becomes a conversation rather than a buying and selling frenzy.

There will come a point in Demetrius's life when a mandolin just becomes another instrument and he will be satisfied with what he has got or a lesser instrument will do.

[Nick Gellie]

Here is a link to Daryl Wolfe's visit to Gene Horner:

https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/s...-Crossville-TN

See what I mean about the conversation that can be had.

[soliver]

As a new owner of a used Flatiron 1N... I'm kinda on the same page as Fatt-Dad... save yourself lotsa thousands of dollars and get an old flatty!... Best $400 I've spent in this game thus far

[Nick Gellie]

As a new owner of a used Flatiron 1N... I'm kinda on the same page as Fatt-Dad... save yourself lotsa thousands of dollars and get an old flatty!... Best $400 I've spent in this game thus far

I am not sure that is an option in this game. We need to understand Demetrius's predicament and come up with solutions that solves his wife's dilemma about him spending a large amount of money on a Gilchrist and solving his search for the right feel and tone in a mandolin. Once the constraints are framed that respects these desires about money and mandolins, a solution or solutions can be found.

So the mandolin needs to be more than a Flatiron and less than a Gilchrist. That is where I sit now with my mandolins. I had a Flatiron 1N back in the 1980s and early 1990s. It got cooked in the back of the car in 1992 on a trip to QLD. It was never the same since even if I did repair the centre seam crack.

[soliver]

I am not sure that is an option in this game. We need to understand Demetrius's predicament and come up with solutions that solves his wife's dilemma about him spending a large amount of money on a Gilchrist and solving his search for the right feel and tone in a mandolin. Once the constraints are framed that respects these desires about money and mandolins, a solution or solutions can be found.

Yea that was a joke

Ironic dichotomy between something you pay $20,000 versus $400... haha funny.

Sorry if that was not clear

I've wondered why Ellis hasn't been in this game?... essentially 1/2 the price of Gil, but still a super big name in high dollar instruments with outstanding reputation.

[Nick Gellie]

I have mentioned Ellis before. Certainly is a contender. They have that smooth tone that Demetrius is looking for.

[soliver]

Has he played one? If so what was the verdict?

Here's an F5 At Carters. The video is 9 mo old so it may be gone, but it is certainly a good example of a good quality awesomeness:

[Don Grieser]

I'm certainly enjoying my Ellis A5.

[Mandobar]

I don't think it's a matter of merely finding something new. I believe part of the problem is selling what he has in order to do that.

I watched the video from his wife, and I was struck by how emotional this is. Right now, I think it's time to take a step back. A Gil is a big investment, and people get all caught up in "being in the club" for this or that builder. Everyone needs to do what is best for their family in these instances.

I wish he and his wife well, and hope this all settles out.

[Caleb]

My philosophy: Find what works and stick with it. And almost anything works.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's a chill little ditty on the Gil 5...


Thanks,
Dem

That's really nice, and my favorite sort of thing to hear (and play) on mandolin.

[Mike Scott]

While I have enjoyed reading and following this thread immensely, I must say I empathize with Dem. he (you) have a great mandolin. You are primarily a guitar player. You are finding it hard to justify the financial aspects of having so many $$$ tied up in your secondary instrument, but cannot seem to find that lesser cost instrument that really floats your boat. I am not a working musician, but do jam once in a while and will admit to being a gear freak in all my various activities. I feel your pain (as well as Mrs. Dem's pain). I do not have a solution because if you're like me, there really isn't one. Good luck in the quest. I look forward to following on....

[Demetrius]

Has he played one? If so what was the verdict?

Here's an F5 At Carters. The video is 9 mo old so it may be gone, but it is certainly a good example of a good quality awesomeness:

Dang... that does sound good.

[Manfred Hacker]

"between a rock and a hard place"

Oh my, and I thought it was all about tone ....

[fatt-dad]

How would TMW feel if Dem just put $100/mo into an investment account of some sort and built up a frivolous fund for instrument purchases?

My wife would empathize with your video! She doesn't get it either! To the point she asks, "You don't see me buying stuff for $5,000 bucks!" I think we all resolve these matters in our own ways. (We're at 30 years of married life.)

While Dem may be fickle with mandolins, it does seem you two are a good couple. Hang in there!

f-d

[Nick Gellie]

Dang... that does sound good.

Great instruments and there are plenty of second-hand near-new A-5s that will sound just as good as the F5s. For around $3.5-4k you can find a really good second hand Ellis A-5 in near mint condition. Here is one from the Mandolin Store just advertised:

https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/115132#115132