Starting new build. Some questions

[bradinbrooklyn]

Hey folks,

I'm potentially starting a guitar bodied longer scale OM or shorter scale Zouk (?) build with a luthier. A few questions for those who have done it, been there, or just have opinions to help give direction to builder.

High level, I play a mix of old-time, bluegrass and would like to get into more Irish traditional music as well following a trip there this summer. I also want something good for just playing solo, potential writing, learning new tunes and playing a mix of tunes with duo and trio groups.

Some more specific spec things I am thinking about:

1) body shape - I'm considering a Martin style 0 or 00 and not sure on slothead or solid. Any thoughts on this either way? Better to have 14 frets over 12? Any pros and cons to either shape given the scale of the instrument?

2) scale length - I'm thinking 23-23.5 is a good zone as I had a shorter scale OM at one point that had trouble on bottom end and overall reasonance. Happy to sacrifice some cut for more growl. Same time I also don't have huge hands so something I can play lead on more comfortably than guitar would be nice.

3) nut width/string spacing - what is common here?

3) Tuners - Do builders use guitar tuners on these typically or mandolin plate tuners? Do standard mandolin plate tuners work or too short?

4) bridge pin/tailpiece - I think bridge pins look most natural. Any reason not to?

5) Top wood - deciding between red cedar or torrefied spruce. Thoughts?

[foldedpath]

I'm more of a mandolin-shape OM guy, but I can toss in an opinion on a couple of these questions:

2) scale length - I'm thinking 23-23.5 is a good zone as I had a shorter scale OM at one point that had trouble on bottom end and overall reasonance. Happy to sacrifice some cut for more growl. Same time I also don't have huge hands so something I can play lead on more comfortably than guitar would be nice.

If you're playing melody and not just chord strumming, I'd recommend a scale length of 22" over 23" or 23.5".

The longer scales are good if you're going for a jangly bouzouki sound and mostly strumming chords, but it's harder on your hands when you're playing a melody line out of first position, as with Irish or OldTime fiddle tunes. My OM is 22" scale, my hands are probably on the large side (I'm 6' 2" tall), and it still feels like a good workout when I'm playing in first position. Of course you can throw on a capo to shorten the scale, but you give up some flexibility for playing in the standard keys for tunes.

4) bridge pin/tailpiece - I think bridge pins look most natural. Any reason not to?

If it's a flat top build, then I think you'd want bridge pins for the best acoustic response. I know there are flat top guitars with tailpieces, but I think of a tailpiece as something for an arch top build.

Good luck with the project, and post some pics when it's done!

[bradinbrooklyn]

Thanks for the advice. I'll want to do some melody playing but also will definitely want to chord and back up for singing with it most of the time. Mostly these days I'm playing guitar and banjo so used to longer scale lengths with those, but understand there will be some stretches given tuning. Agree with you on tailpieces more natural for archtop.

[kwerry]

I'll comment on a couple of points as well..

I hobby build GBOM's and such..

Tuners could be either, I've done both usually depending on look and availability.

I agree witht he Bridge pin comments unless you are married to the sound of a tailpiece which usually changes the internal bracing as well (or at least can)..

Top wood, I like Cedar (Western Red) but it is a bit easy to dent.. It gives a nice warm sound IMHO... No experience with the torrified stuff...

I also prefer 12 frets to the body, cut away if you want more access, i personally think it sounds better than 14 but it all personal preference...

Good luck..

Kerry

Hey folks,

I'm potentially starting a guitar bodied longer scale OM or shorter scale Zouk (?) build with a luthier. A few questions for those who have done it, been there, or just have opinions to help give direction to builder.

High level, I play a mix of old-time, bluegrass and would like to get into more Irish traditional music as well following a trip there this summer. I also want something good for just playing solo, potential writing, learning new tunes and playing a mix of tunes with duo and trio groups.

Some more specific spec things I am thinking about:

1) body shape - I'm considering a Martin style 0 or 00 and not sure on slothead or solid. Any thoughts on this either way? Better to have 14 frets over 12? Any pros and cons to either shape given the scale of the instrument?

2) scale length - I'm thinking 23-23.5 is a good zone as I had a shorter scale OM at one point that had trouble on bottom end and overall reasonance. Happy to sacrifice some cut for more growl. Same time I also don't have huge hands so something I can play lead on more comfortably than guitar would be nice.

3) nut width/string spacing - what is common here?

3) Tuners - Do builders use guitar tuners on these typically or mandolin plate tuners? Do standard mandolin plate tuners work or too short?

4) bridge pin/tailpiece - I think bridge pins look most natural. Any reason not to?

5) Top wood - deciding between red cedar or torrefied spruce. Thoughts?

[bradinbrooklyn]

Thanks Kwerry,

In ones you've done, where do you usually land as far as nut width and scale length? I do like the idea of a 12 fret and potentially slothead too with mandolin tuners. Don't think I'll need to much high fret access so cutaway not nec.

[bradinbrooklyn]

I think I've landed on:

1) 23 inch scale
2) Slothead 12 frets to body with rubner mandolin tuners (brushed nickel elegance series)
3) Body shape somewhere between 0 to 00 (not positive here and may depend on plans we find)
4) red cedar top, hog back and sides
5) pin bridge

[fox]

I would go with the 12 frets too, for small bodies like you are talking about, 12 frets normally puts the bridge closer to the centre of the soundboard & possibly works the top a little bit more efficiently than 14 frets.
23" scale is a very popular & I think a good choice.
I would go for the biggest body option for a bit more volume.
I build mine with a 34mm nut.
Induced archtops (not carved or pressed) seem to work very well with a floating bridge & tailpiece, perhaps look into that...

[bradinbrooklyn]

Thanks. I think I am pretty set on the pin bridge and flattop. Appreciate your thoughts on the nut width. I think somewhere in the 34-36mm range is good. How about direction on string spacing?

[bradinbrooklyn]

Also curious about fretboard radius for octave mandolins? Any guidance there. I think my mandolin has a slight compound radius... a 9 maybe?

[bradinbrooklyn]

Also curious about fretboard radius for octave mandolins? Any guidance there. I think my mandolin has a slight compound radius... a 9 maybe?

[foldedpath]

Regarding radius, it's more about what you're used to, because flat or radius can work fine.

I've always preferred a shallow radius or compound radius on my guitars, where the scale length is similar to an OM. But the secondhand Weber Yellowstone OM I was lucky to find on Ebay has a flat fretboard. Not what I would have ordered if it had been a custom, but it doesn't bug me. There is so much that's different about an octave mandolin compared to either my guitars or my mandolin (which does have a slight radius) that I'm making far more adjustments in other areas like hand stretch. I hardly notice the radius difference. So, go with what you like and what you're used to.

P.S. make sure you really like changing strings on a slot head. I know it looks cool, but it takes some determination to change 8 strings at a time on a slot head. Conventional post tuners are just so much easier!

[bradinbrooklyn]

Thanks - yeah... good stuff to think about. At Kieran's shop in Galway I actually felt most comfortable on a flat fingerboard zouk guitar. My guitar is a 16. Almost flat and was picturing it to be more like the guitar than mandolin. Tough with having so few to try....

[allenhopkins]

...Tough with having so few to try....

Amen to that.