Mandolin value question Epiphone MM 30

[kimberlyjdavis45]

My 14 year old son plays fiddle, and he has wanted for some time to also play mandolin. Yesterday I took him to the luthier shop where we have done business with his fiddle. The owner showed him a few mandolins, and he purchased the one that the owner said was the better instrument. We didn't research the value of the instrument, because we greatly trusted this business owner. However, we found the same mandolin online for far less than what he paid.

The instrument he purchased is an Epiphone MM-30 AS. It was manufactured in China in 2005 and is in good condition. I also have the serial number if that would help. Can someone please tell me the price range for this instrument?

[almeriastrings]

Used = $125 to $150 depending on condition. It is not a solid wood instrument, and often goes for even less, but that would be roughly what most dealers might expect to list one in good condition for. You can find new ones for around $200.

[kimberlyjdavis45]

Wow. I am shocked and stunned by what he was charged. Hopefully this dealer will refund his money. I am embarrassed to tell you what he paid. I never buy anything without doing extensive research, but I did this time based on the seller's reputation. Is there ANY WAY that there could be a higher end model of this instrument? Grasping at straws....

[Chris Daniels]

Briefly owned a used but near-mint MM30 I bought for $90. It was a pretty good mando, especially for the money.

Sold it for $140 because the buyer appreciated it was an earlier Korean-made one. I'm afraid that's as close to a 'higher end' model as there is going to be.

C.

[almeriastrings]

Is there ANY WAY that there could be a higher end model of this instrument? Grasping at straws....

Sadly, not. These "are what they are". There have been a few minor changes here and there over the years, but the basic design and spec has not changed appreciably.

Hope you resolve the situation. Correctly set up they can be OK as a beginner instrument, but most would want to trade up fairly quickly. Standard advice in these parts is to look for an all solid, carved instrument such as the Kentucky KM-150, The Loar LM220, or Eastman MD305 and to buy from a mandolin speciality dealer (Cafe Sponsor) who will ensure it is delivered in playable condition.

[kimberlyjdavis45]

Thank you for your help. Prepare to be pretty mortified. He charged us $675 for the Epiphone. Had him play it as compared to a "$400" mandolin and, of course, this one sounded better and was easier to play. He did finally agree to a refund of the full amount minus a $30 credit card charge (which now I am wondering about) after my son turned on the water works and gave him a sob story. This was a person we thought we knew pretty well and trusted. I truly hate that this happened.

[Nevin]

I would suggest reporting him to the better business bureau. As for the $30 credit card fee that too is a ripoff. Most small businesses are charged between $.02 and $0.25 for a transaction. Most credit cards don't charge any fee for a return. If he is an athorized dealer for Epiphone, I would let them know about this too.

[pops1]

Sold you a used mandolin for $675 that you could buy new for $199 and free shipping. I think I would look for a more honest repair person. That is sad. I turn down work because something may cost more to fix than you could replace and get a major upgrade at the same time. Honesty is what business should be about, doing good work is important, but honestly.

[colorado_al]

That is a serious bummer. I guess this shop owner does not appreciate return customers, nor a good reputation.
The $30 return fee stinks, but I would look at it as money well spent to never deal with that seller again.

There are several dealers who are sponsors of the site who can get you squared away with a great mandolin for$600 or less. Try Folk Musician and The Mandolin Store.
There are also some excellent mandolins available on the classifieds section of this site.
I'll look at it and make some recommendations

Here's a Kentucky KM900 for $600 that is a huge step up from most you'll find at that price (Especially the Epiphone)
https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/113454#113454

If you're interested in a F style, this JBovier F5 for $550 is a really good buy. It sounds like it has a bit of play-wear, but I think it is the best value of any F Style on the classifieds right now
https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/113322#113322

If you want to spend less, this Kentucky KM-550 could be a good buy at $450
https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/112898#112898

If you're buying new, and are comfortable spending up to $600-$700 I would encourage you to look at the Eastman MD-505.

Here's a used Eastman MD-505 for $500
https://reverb.com/item/6113777-east...-mandolin-mint

All of these instruments will be far superior to the Epiphone MM30.

Also curious about where you are located? There may be a GOOD local shop that you can go check out.

[mrmando]

Well, you're in the right place now. If you see another mandolin that looks good, run it by the Cafe and you'll get some honest opinions. Check the Classifieds while you're here. $600 could get you a good used Eastman (still made in China, but miles ahead of the Epiphone).

Moral of the story: Don't buy a mandolin from a violin shop? I don't know what possessed this luthier to charge so much for this instrument. I hope there's enough trust left so your son can still get his fiddle worked on when necessary.

[Jill McAuley]

I'm just glad you got your $$ back! Read this thread earlier and it made my blood boil - such a low and lousy thing for that shop to do!

Here's link for a great mandolin, new but listed as a "blem", meaning there may be small finish imperfections. It's being sold by one of our sponsors here, The Mandolin Store - they are great folks to deal with and you would be getting an instrument that is ready to play right out of the case as all their instruments are very well set up prior to leaving their shop. Your son would get a lot of mileage out of this mandolin and you'd get decent resale value on it as well whenever he decides to move up the mandolin food chain later down the line:

https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/113475#113475

[colorado_al]

+1 on the Eastman MD-605 blem for $650 from the Mandolin Store that Jill posted. It also has a built in pickup. That is a good buy and from a seller who will set it up for you and be there if you have any problems.

[Jeff Mando]

I am sorry you got ripped off and I am glad you got your money back. However, there is no law telling a shop owner what to charge for his merchandise. He is free to charge what he feels his particular market will bear. Haven't you been on vacation and seen $10 hamburgers on the menu? You didn't say where you are located, are you in a high-priced area or a tourist area? Those are factors that might come into play. Sure, these days we have the internet, eBay and Guitar Center to compare prices, but again nobody is forced to be inline with those prices. Where I live the price of gas can be 35 cents more a gallon just by driving down the street -- doesn't make sense to me, either, but those places stay in business somehow! A luthier probably has less reason for people to price check the price of repair work, because in many locations they are the only game in town. Just a few thoughts I had, not in defense of overcharging, heck, I'm a bargain hunter, myself......

[kimberlyjdavis45]

We live in Albany, Texas. It's about two hours west of Fort Worth. The closest "real" town is Abilene. There are 3 music stores there. The largest one markets mostly band instruments. One is mostly guitars and has consignments. The one with which we had the less than stellar experience is a violin and guitar maker who also sells a few quality used instruments.

[colorado_al]

We live in Albany, Texas. It's about two hours west of Fort Worth. The closest "real" town is Abilene. There are 3 music stores there. The largest one markets mostly band instruments. One is mostly guitars and has consignments. The one with which we had the less than stellar experience is a violin and guitar maker who also sells a few quality used instruments.

I think your best bet is going to be to buy from a Cafe sponsor by mail order. You could buy one of the instruments from a private party through the Classifieds, but probably less risk to buy from a shop that has a good deal.
I was going to suggest you go to fiddlersgreenmusicshop.com in Austin, but that is probably 3-4 hours away from you.
I'd contact them, themandolinstore.com and folkmusician.com. I'd tell them that your child is an accomplished violin player and maybe your story about the rip-off artist in your town and see what they have for you. I think that Eastman MD-605 from the Mandolin Store is a good buy.
If you want to go lower priced, you can buy a Kentucky KM250 for $375 which is a really good deal
http://www.fiddlersgreenmusicshop.co...entucky-km-250
but I think your child might outgrow it more quickly than the Eastman.

[kimberlyjdavis45]

I showed my son that Eastman. He really starting salivating over it. I am still so upset that I could cry. Bryson is such a good kid, and we are going through a pretty rough patch right now. I agreed to let him borrow the money and get that one because I know he needs something to get his mind of his dad's and my split up. He even told Mr. Store Owner how he was going to work for his granddad to pay it off. On a positive note, he picked it up and played it like he knew what he was doing, so I know it's something he will work at and really excell. I just hate that an adult he trusted violated that trust. He called him yesterday and asked if he had mandolins and made the comment that he knew he could trust him to make a good deal. You know how bad it hurts to see your kid's disappointment.

[colorado_al]

I showed my son that Eastman. He really starting salivating over it. I am still so upset that I could cry. Bryson is such a good kid, and we are going through a pretty rough patch right now. I agreed to let him borrow the money and get that one because I know he needs something to get his mind of his dad's and my split up. He even told Mr. Store Owner how he was going to work for his granddad to pay it off. On a positive note, he picked it up and played it like he knew what he was doing, so I know it's something he will work at and really excell. I just hate that an adult he trusted violated that trust. He called him yesterday and asked if he had mandolins and made the comment that he knew he could trust him to make a good deal. You know how bad it hurts to see your kid's disappointment.

That is a serious bummer. I think that Eastman MD-605 is a great deal. A nice sounding and easy playing mandolin, with the added bonus of a factory installed pickup. The Mandolin Store will do a shop setup for you too. I think that will be a great instrument for him for a long time. There is nothing better than music to soothe the soul. Best of luck to you both!

[LadysSolo]

Well, the good thing is that mandolins are tuned like violins (but with pairs of strings instead of single strings.) I have bought two mandolins from The Mandolin Store, and they are very nice to deal with (NFI) and Robert Fear from the Folk Musician frequently posts on here and is very helpful with his information and also seems very nice (NFI.) We all like to "share the insanity," and will help as much as we can.

[kimberlyjdavis45]

Thanks, guys, for all your help. I sent the seller an email and if it's still available we may likely purchase it. I was afraid to buy something "site unseen" before but after you guys have given me such great guidance, it doesn't worry me. Besides, the mandolin "seen" yesterday sure didn't turn out to be any kind of good deal. Juan, my oldest son's guitar dealer, told my boys that this happens pretty frequently with the old man at the other store. He advised them today to request a refund, and if he wouldn't give it to seek legal counsel. I am so thankful we got it resolved!

[almeriastrings]

Well, I'm glad you got it resolved. You will find the speciality mandolin people recommended here to be entirely different to do business with than your first experience of mandolin buying. $675 for used $199 (new!) mandolin is just plain outrageous. Wrong on every level. Lots of good advice on learning too available here.... hope your son makes good progress.

[mrmando]

Albany doesn't sound like a tourist mecca, now, does it?

That there's no law prohibiting this sort of pricing is rather beside the point. One ticked-off customer can make life hell for a business owner in the age of social media. I hope this luthier realized that his good reputation is worth more than the semolians he cleared on the sale of one overpriced mandolin.

[Bill Kammerzell]

No ethics, no scruples and greed. Can't imagine what would possess an individual to do something like this to people who knew, who specifically said, "we trust you." Just doesn't make sense to me.

[F-2 Dave]

There are several videos on the youtube of people demonstrating the 605. The one by Steve Perry of Gianna Violins (also a cafe member) sounds especially good to my ears.

Sorry to hear of your misfortune. Sometimes people suck. You're among friends here. Best to you and your son.

[Mark Gunter]

Hi Kimberly, Mark in Clyde here. The only mandolins available in Abilene music stores that I'm aware of right now are a couple of Gretsch at N-Tune music - and I know the over-priced luthier of whom you speak. He has a good reputation for his builds among some, also he's despised by many, one thing I know is that he is too expensive for me. I'm not at all surprised that he overpriced a used instrument to a ridiculous extent.

In my opinion, anyone interested in mandolins at all should spend time here at the cafe. There is an amazing amount of combined knowledge here, and even though there may be an equally large number of differing opinions on many things, you can certainly learn how to spot a good deal on a mandolin by reading in this forum. You've come to the right place.

Out here in west Texas I have bought all my mandolins online. The cafe sponsors mentioned above do some setup work when you purchase, others don't. As to a proper setup, it is more important even than the quality of the mandolin itself! There are many, many musicians, old-timers and youth, all out in this area. There are a number of folk around who can help with setup issues on guitars and mandolins. There is more than one option for lutherie around Abilene, but you have to get out a bit and play to find some of them.

Great that you got the bulk of your money refunded. I hope your next mandolin experience will be a good one.

[KEB]

Just so you know that you're not alone, I'll relate my similar story.

I walked into my local music store knowing NOTHING about musical instruments. Much less about mandolins. I'd read a handful of threads on here that said "solid top" is the goal at my price point. I admited the fact and said that I was local and would take lessons there and be a regular stream of income if he lead me in the right direction, so he sold me a $150 mandolin for $350. Then set me up with lessons with a guy who didn't even own a mandolin (but played fiddle, so that must be the same thing right? Guy didn't know how to play chords-- just lead lines because he's a fiddle player). The mandolin was set up so badly that intonation was off by more than a semitone at the 7th fret.

Funny enough, he had to sell his business to a chain less than 2 years later. So, between the lessons and the junky mandolin, I was took for more than you were by an unscrupulous music store owner. I'm lucky I'm still playing after that inauspicious start.