Getting Uniform Dye Coloring on (Bad) Spruce

[Walt]

This mando started out as a saga kit. My plan was to slap the kit together over a couple of weekend so that I could practice on my French polishing skills. Fast forward a couple of months and I've spent a lot of time trying to make this a good mandolin (top regraduation, refret, new hardware, etc.).
I was going for a solid burnt orange top with sunburst back and sides using water-based aniline dye. The maple came out pretty good, but the top wouldn't accept the dye uniformly. I don't know if this is a "spruce" problem or a "me" problem or some combination of the two.
As you can see in the pictures, it is a pretty low grade piece of spruce with lots of pink highlights in the wood (I have some good sitka and carpathian spruce here that is pretty much entirely white).
My goal is a uniformed colored burnt orange top. My questions are:

(1) Can y'all help me diagnose what caused the un-uniform color?

(2) What are my options for fixing it? I'm going to be French polishing with an Amber shellac. I was thinking about trying to tint the shellac for the top with some orange and brown aniline dye, but I'm not sure whether the water-based dye I have will work with alcohol-based shellac.

(3) Should I just do a black top and call it a day?

[Spruce]

Can y'all help me diagnose what caused the un-uniform color?

Runout in the spruce?

[hank]

Hey Matt, are you still in Funroe? I think Spruce is on it on the diagnosis. Better get better advice than mine on making it better though. My 06 Rush clearly shows runout on its top The light areas can be stained more to compensate but it will mostly be on the surface and more easily sanded away than the darker areas that absorbed the stain. Even if you can get the color more uniform it will always be visible because of the way it reflects light. I like the look on my Rush but it is much less extreme than yours or they were able to make it less noticeable.

[Walt]

Hey Matt, are you still in Funroe?

Hey Hank! I just got back to Monroe a few months ago. I've been in living in Williamsburg, VA for grad school for several years. I'm hoping to get an Enoch's gig going again (I remember you saying that you knew Doyle and Yvette). That Gold Rush is looking fantastic.

I had to look up "runout," but it makes sense that that's the problem. I actually have some really, really nice spruce that I bought from Bruce six or seven years ago. Probably big enough for a 'cello. I wanted to practice on this stuff before I attempted to do anything with Bruce's stuff.

[fscotte]

Looks like uneven sanding. Too much sanding in one area, too little in another. Or using different grit and not sanding evenly with each subsequent grit.

[Walt]

Looks like uneven sanding. Too much sanding in one area, too little in another. Or using different grit and not sanding evenly with each subsequent grit.

Might be. I was pretty careful with it, though. Started with 80 to 120 to 180 to 220 to 320 to 400. Checked for scratches under a bright light between each coat. Could be a sanding problem, but I was meticulous enough this time that I wouldn't know how to improve on it next time.

I dig your mandolins, by the way.

[amowry]

It's pretty tough to do a uniform color (as opposed to a sunburst) on spruce by just wiping the dye on. It does help some to dampen the wood first and then quickly wipe the dye on before the wood dries. If you have an airbrush or small spray gun, I'd say that's the way to go.

[fscotte]

Yes wetting it prior is great advice. BTW I really dig that look with the pickguard and tailpiece. I think youre on the right track.

[sunburst]

It's grain run out as well as the top being carved so that more end grain is present at the surface in some places than in others.
Spraying the stain is the easiest and probably best remedy. Also, after finishing, placing a bridge on the top and a tailpiece and strings over the top it will look less blotchy.

[Walt]

It does help some to dampen the wood first and then quickly wipe the dye on before the wood dries. If you have an airbrush or small spray gun, I'd say that's the way to go.

Thank you, Andrew. I'm not setup to use an airbrush, unfortunately; but I might try to get one for future mandos. What is the easiest material to spray for someone knew to airbrushing? Tinted lacquer?

Yes wetting it prior is great advice. BTW I really dig that look with the pickguard and tailpiece. I think youre on the right track.

Thanks! I'm hoping the Macassar pickguard and tailpiece will still work in the event I have to punt and do a black top. I'm worried that the dark tailpiece will get lost over the black finish. I have to remake the tailpiece anyway (I messed up my spacing for the string posts). If I do a black top, I might try putting white binding on the tailpiece to create some contrast.

[Charles E.]

I do not know about staining the top before finish is applied but I agree that grain runout is the problem. Basically it is end grain and will take color more quickly causing a "burn". With varnish finishes there are various ways of sealing the end grain to avoid the blotchy look and get a uniform appearance.

[Walt]

It's grain run out as well as the top being carved so that more end grain is present at the surface in some places than in others.

Thank you, John. I got to see/hear one of your mandos when I was living in Virginia. The mando player for Love Canon was playing one. Sounded incredible.

I do not know about staining the top before finish is applied but I agree that grain runout is the problem. Basically it is end grain and will take color more quickly causing a "burn". With varnish finishes there are various ways of sealing the end grain to avoid the blotchy look and get a uniform appearance.

Thanks, Charles. I had never heard of runout before now, even though I've seen its effect in instruments.

For anyone finding this thread and wanting to learn about it, this link has an easy-to-follow explanation. http://www.lutherie.net/frankford.runout.html

[Tom Haywood]

I'll add that I've seen several of these kits and I think they put some kind of clear sealer on the wood. Graduating the inside gets rid of it there, but you have to do some serious sanding on the outside to keep it from splotching. And you could put a sanding sealer on it. In any event test it before staining by rubbing some mineral spirits on to see what it looks like.

[hank]

Wow! That sounds pretty great Matt. I bet that was a cultural change. Tell Dole hello for me. Dole was my brother in arms in early art school. Is he still putting on the Celtic festivals? I'm with Wes on liking your tailpiece and pickguard function and deco aesthetics. Doles woodcuts might be fun inspiration for future headstock inlay.

[Paul Busman]

If you're using an oil based stain, Minwax makes a product for this exact purpose. I've used it on various projects (not instruments) and it works quite well. Test on a hidden area though, like the inside of the top.

http://http://www.minwax.com/wood-pr...od-conditioner