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Thread: Playing radius and flat fretboards

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    Default Playing radius and flat fretboards

    I own a Marty Jacobsen #37 which I love with a radius fretboard. I also have an Eastman 615 and a #20 Crystal Forrest mandolin. Do people switch between these fretboards and is there some tuning differences between a radius and a flat fretboard?

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    Barn Cat Mandolins Bob Clark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    Hi Sterling,

    I have both flat and radius boards. I have no problem switching back and forth and see no difference other than the feel. I prefer radius boards but in a new purchase, a flat board would not be a deal-breaker. I find the difference minimal but as I stated, I do prefer a radius.

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    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    Thanks Bob.
    I should just get off my butt and play all three of my mandolins. I own about 40 trumpets and appreciate the differences between them.
    Last edited by Sterling; Jul-24-2017 at 9:14am.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    I started on a borrowed mandolin with a wide, flat board. My Eastman has a narrower, radiused board. It definitely feels different, but either is fine.
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    F5G & MD305 Astro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    I also have found very little difference on flat or radius fretboard.

    Its taken me a few years trying to figure it out, but finally I think the thing that most distinguishes a more comfortable neck and playability for me (aside from set up of course) is actually the back shape of the neck. It seems I do not favor the pointier v neck profile (some Gibsons) and seem to like a gentler c shape profile (Eastmans and other moderns). But I love my Gibson otherwise so I acclimate. I do wonder about shaving down the back of the neck to flatten it a bit though.
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    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    I notice the difference for the first couple of seconds playing the "other" one. I go back and forth all the time.

    The real difference I find is the radius fret board is a bit more comfortable. But double stops with one finger are a tad more difficult.

    It makes a slight difference but it is not the most important thing I consider in a purchase. I don't consider it much at all.
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    Registered User Jill McAuley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    I prefer a radius fretboard meself - I had a great '27 Gibson A-jr with a flat board for a year, managed on it just fine, but definitely felt the difference in a good way when I sold it and got my MTO. Can't see meself getting a mandolin with a flat fretboard again in the future. Loved the sound of my A-jr but the flat board proved to be a deal breaker for me in the end.
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    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    I much prefer the radius on my Eastman, however my bowlback and pocket mandolins both have flat. I tend to play the Eastman most and find it much more comfortable and 'natural' to play. I can happily switch to the flat fretboards on the other two, but sometimes it takes me a moment to get used to them again. In future if I upgraded from the Eastman, I'd be looking for a radius.
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    I may be old but I'm ugly billhay4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    I have small hands and a radius fretboard is a problem for me, especially on a 5-course multi-scaled instrument like the Jacobson I play now.
    I have a theory about that may well be just a justification for a personal preference. But here it is. On a multi-scale, the low strings have a longer scale, so not only do you have to stretch wider with a radius fretboard, but you also have to reach up and over an adjacent string to reach the string on the low course. If you don't, you'll mute the adjacent string when you fret the string you want.
    I find this means I simply cannot do a four-finger chord on this instrument. I don't really need to do that given the kind of music I normally play and my playing style, but it is a limitation of radius fretboards in my view for people with small hands.
    I am building an instrument now and am going to try a fretboard that is slightly slanted entirely toward the treble strings. I'll report on this if and when I ever get that done.
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    Henry Lawton hank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    That's a cool Jacobson, Bill. I can't tell the difference by playing a flat and then slight radius but I sure can when they get extreme. It changes string spacing as well because the board gets wider and because the strings aren't horizontally above the board their spacing grows even more than the board until you fret them. If the radius is enough to put the string pairs at different angles to each other along with wider spacing it's more difficult to use multiple sets with one digit. I have large hands and fingers but still prefer closer string set spacing and narrower flat fretboards. I learned this from my 23 F4's setup. The set up is with tiny stainless frets set very close together on a narrow 1" flat fretboard. The normal logic used to give the wound string more room is ignored with the G string set closer than any I have ever seen. This mandolin almost plays itself and is very easy to single finger double stop. This 1" board and strange string spacing works because you can't drive an F4 as hard as a bluegrass paint peeler. Isn't the more radical radius on a violin needed to lower the outside strings from the center ones to facilitate separation with the bow? The mechanics of pick manipulation require precise depth control that a radiused bridge would seemingly make more difficult. The outer sets would be further away from your pick than the inner sets making them louder than the outer set if not compensated for with your wrist.
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    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    ... I think the thing that most distinguishes a more comfortable neck and playability for me (aside from set up of course) is actually the back shape of the neck. It seems I do not favor the pointier v neck profile (some Gibsons) and seem to like a gentler c shape profile (Eastmans and other moderns). But I love my Gibson otherwise so I acclimate. I do wonder about shaving down the back of the neck to flatten it a bit though.
    I had the V profile on my F-9 gently rounded. The V was so pronounced that it hurt my thumb while playing. I had worn most of the colored finish off of the back of this instrument's neck, so I also had the neck speed-necked and French polished at that time. Both changes helped this neck's feel a lot, but my thumb especially appreciates the more gentle V profile.

    Also done during the same visit was a complete fingerboard levelling and re-fret with wider Gold-Evo frets, and a professional setup. At the time of the fretwork I also talked with the luthier about possibly having the fingerboard radiused, but in the end I decided that the new frets and the rounded V would take care of my needs.

    I've been extremely pleased with the results of this work. I used to just put up with the thumb pain because I like this F-9 so much, but this mandolin is just a joy to play now. (Many thanks to luthier Austin Clark for his great work...)

    I do have an MK F-style mandolin which has a radiused fingerboard. Since I had the neck work done on the F-9, I really can't recognize a radius-related difference between the MK's radiused fingerboard and the F-9's flat fingerboard. I suspect that the MK's radius is extremely mild.
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    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    Quote Originally Posted by Sterling View Post
    Thanks Bob.
    I should just get off my butt and play all three of my mandolins. I own about 40 trumpets and appreciate the differences between them.
    That's a lot of trumpets....

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    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    You have no idea.... I have friends who laugh at my small collection! They say that it is a nice start! I have brass instruments from the 1830's, 1860's, 1900, 1920, etc to modern trumpets.

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    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    To me, a slight radius is more comfy than a pronounced one. Regarding sharp V profiles, even a small amount of sanding of the point can be a big improvements if this with my '20 A2.

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    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    I used to avoid playing my Collings because of the neck profile. I was so used to my Weber, and the Collings would make my hand hurt. Now it is the other way around, as I am adjusting my grip, getting rid of the death grip. I would not palm the neck, but would find a position where the thumb edge would counter the (excessive) pressure of my fingers. I still have issues with certain positions (5th fret and 2nd fret on string below), but I am getting better. I now prefer the rounded V of the Collings to the more D shaped profile of the Weber.

    In the past, I would always look at a mandolin, see the flat fretboard, and use that as an excuse not to try it out. Now that I have some more experience behind me, and I am more confident, I think I just need to be more open minded about flat fretboards.
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    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    Back to the radius fret boards...I just bought a mandolin with a radius fret board and I have a hard time pressing the strings down to get a perfect note on the E and A strings...I am sure that I will get used to it as time goes by but as for right now I prefer the flat boards...

    Willie

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    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    Wow! Thanks everyone for their input. I took my Eastman 615 out of the case and played it for a couple of hours tonight. It was a nice change from my Jacobson #37. I would like to be as comfortable switching between mandolins as I am with my brass instruments. Guess I should stop typing and practice!

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    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    It's a deal breaker for me. I much prefer a radiused board. I started flat, bought my Eastman and can't look back.
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    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    I go back and forth with not problems. Getting familiar with both makes it as easy as going between mandolin and guitar. I really don't notice weather the board is flat or radiused.
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    I may be old but I'm ugly billhay4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    Very good points, hank, but, of course, the choice between radius fretboard and flat is in the end a personal choice. All of our theories are irrelevant, but I sure do like coming up with them.
    For instance, with regard to neck profile, I have another theory. A v-neck tends to lead you to lock in your hand position by keeping the v in the v of your thumb and index finger. A flatter neck allows you to move your hand more and thus frees it up a bit.
    Who knows?
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    Registered User Atlanta Mando Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    All else equal, I prefer a radius but it's far from a deal breaker... My current mandolin is flat and I love it. I tend to think other issues are a bigger deal on playability - depth and shape of the neck are big for me, width of the nut is at least as important as the radius vs. flat board issue and probably more important for me really. I also think flat board and thin frets are key components to the classic Loar style sound. I used to not think that way but experience has changed my mind some. YMMV

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    Registered User Cochiti Don's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    Really enjoying this thread. I'm on my way to AZ to sample at the Mandolin Store next week. What series of Eastmans have the radius fretboard? Playability is my main concern due to age and beginner status
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    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    Quote Originally Posted by hank View Post
    ... Isn't the more radical radius on a violin needed to lower the outside strings from the center ones to facilitate separation with the bow? The mechanics of pick manipulation require precise depth control that a radiused bridge would seemingly make more difficult. The outer sets would be further away from your pick than the inner sets making them louder than the outer set if not compensated for with your wrist.
    I had the same idea when comparing mandolin with fiddles. Doesn't it make more difference for the right hand than the left? Does the radius not help to pick only the intended string and avoid the neighbouring ones?
    Honestly I can't tell. Even a heavily radiused mandolin neck is quite a different animal than a fiddle neck and you get used to it too quick to really note the difference. And then I never got away from always digging way too deep with the pick, so I simply don't notice the difference.
    What I easily note is the width of the neck. That's much more important for me than the radius.
    Last edited by Toni Schula; Jul-25-2017 at 1:49pm. Reason: forgot to quote OP

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    Henry Lawton hank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    A bit off topic but I think small frets get a bad rap because they have to be tall enough to prevent excessive finger pressure and board contact. It's not the width that wears you out it's the lower profile of some. Nickel steel ones seem to wear out quickly and can't take much height removal to dress out the wear. Wide boards and string spacing like earlier Gibsons are by and large my biggest stumbling block. I ended up making a new Pearl nut and reducing the bridge intonation segments a tiny amount to bring the string closer together. The small excess outboard of the strings is like a small radius, not a problem.

    Here is a photo of my 23 F4's nut. Looks like 1 and 1/16" not 1" that I incorrectly gave in an earlier post. You can see the widest space between the A & E sets and closest between the G & D set.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Default Re: Playing radius and flat fretboards

    I think all Eastmans have a radius board. You will like The Mandolin Store. Make sure you know when someone will be there. They do 99% of their business online, so they go to the shop mid morning, get mandolins ready to ship, wait for FedEX, then leave. It is the place to go for an education. Like everywhere else, if it sells, any particular mandolin is gone. I wanted to try a Kentucky master f style, but had to settle for an A. No big deal.

    It is there I found out what a nice mandolin a Gibson F 9 is. I could easily adjust to it's flat board.
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