Relatively expensive mandolins

[Br1ck]

It seems to me that these days there is a proliferation of mandolins priced north of $7500, and I'm curious as to who is buying them.

To put a perspective on where I'm coming from, I live in the SF Bay Area, and when pondering how much anything costs and how anyone could afford them (Harleys, ski boats, etc.) I just think how much more of my income goes to my mortgage relative to if I lived in a reasonable area. If I moved to even the Sierra foothills, I suppose I could by an Ellis F5 with about six month's savings. But I don't know if I would.

I'm curious as to how people think of their mandolin purchases in relation to their income.

Do you eat Raman noodles for months? Is $7500 chump change to you? Is it a business write off? ( I have a daughter who does that with her viola which is sole income).

Being now retired, I couldn't imagine spending much more than $3000 for a mandolin, but I can certainly imagine someone else would. As a well off friend once told me, you could drive a Porsche if you really wanted to. I suppose he was right.

[Mike Stewart]

I’ve known people that own an expensive Harley but live in a trailer. Cared about owning a Harley more than he cared about a nice house. I’m down with that, it’s not my place to prioritize the lives of others. Personally, we are two software workers and no kids, and I don’t drink or womanize. So when a used Pava F5 came up for sale, it was simply a matter of making puppy eyes at the spouse. Now I’m not trying to brag at all, as I’m aware a lot of our good fortune was shear luck, but to point out that circumstances vary a lot. At our house we just don’t make a lot of big purchases. Modest house, twelve year old car, that kind of thing; way below our means. Our only debt is the house. But every once in a while one of us will get a wild hair up our butt and pull the trigger on something. Well, when ya don’t spend much otherwise, you can get away with that once in a while. (Granted, a used Pava F5 is a bit below your $7500, I figured it was close enough for illustrative purposes.

But those that have the Harley, boat, Bay Area mortgage payment, *and* the Ellis F5? Hell if I know how they do it.

[soliver]

Dittos here... my income is way for south of any ability to afford even a $1000 instrument. Selling stuff and saving up for my Eastman was a feat for me. The thought of dropping a few grand like an acquaintance of mine just did on a Collings is way outside of my ability to imagine.

[UsuallyPickin]

My housemate is a cat..... My sole surviving bad habit is a late snack. I live in a small Mid America town in an old house and would still be driving an old truck but a ditz ran a stoplight and trashed my ride. C'est la Vie. Instruments are a very large part of my quality of life so when one calls my name I often buy it. A few years back my parents estates settled and I found myself with more money than I needed. I bought one pricey instrument, not only for myself as my son plays so I know where it is going. It is a joy to have and play. Still ... having some money in the bank allows me a bit of peace of mind .... having all my money in a bank would be as silly, to me, as having no money for groceries because I buy an old Martin or Gibson or whatever each year....... So ..... I live quietly watch my expenses .... and play nice instruments. I think Harley Davidson motorcycles are great ..... just not my kind of great. R/

[Tomando]

I have found that if you buy a mando used,by a respected luthier, at a fair price, and treat it well, you can always resell it for about what you paid for it, sometimes more. I currently "use" an Ellis F5 that I bought used. I expect to play it joyfully until I can no longer play, at which point I will sell it for about what I paid for it. So yes, big $$ up front, but ultimately, cost me next to nothing to play a magnificent instrument. Buying new is a different story.

[soliver]

That sounds quite nice, UsuallyPickin'!

[Jack Roberts]

Well, I don't own a mandolin that expensive, but I have treated myself to a few other luxury items. Here's the deal: put $100 a month into savings. In 8 years you can buy a $7500 mandolin and have money left over to take it on a tour of Bluegrass Festivals all Summer. And think of how good you'll get practicing those 8 years on the cheap instrument you bought to learn on.

[Ray(T)]

It's largely a matter of what you choose to spend your money on. Assuming you can earn it in the first place, some might choose to drink it, some might choose to smoke it, some might choose to drive it and some may spend it raising a family. I've done none of those, put a fair part of it away for a rainy day and now I can afford to spend it before I get too old to enjoy it.

I've also found that an expensive instrument tends to be worth as much, if not more, than you paid for it several decades down the line. How much is a 1973 Martin D18 worth today? Cost me £190 new.

[Charles E.]

Just count yourself lucky that you are not in the violin world. "Mid range" violins can cost 20k or more. I remember years ago a father and his daughter were in the shop and the daughter and her teacher were trying violins in the 30k-50k range and the father was sitting on the couch looking not too happy when I heard him mutter "why did I have to have such a talented daughter?!"

[LadysSolo]

Charles E. Wow! I bought a used violin at auction that sounds totally fabulous (still learning to play it,) and it cost me $150.00. The bow is wonderful, probably worth more than the violin. Anyway, to the original question: I bought my 2 "good" mandolins (a Pava and a Weber) from the Mandolin Store on the credit plan they offer - no interest if paid in full in however many months. I knew I could do that easily, divided the total amount by the # of months, and I will finish paying a month early. And my MAS is completely satisfied now.

[pheffernan]

I'm curious as to how people think of their mandolin purchases in relation to their income.

As a teacher, I subsist upon my paycheck every two weeks. I don't live extravagantly, with a small home and a 7 year old Mazda, but the bills are paid on time, the kids' college fund is covered, and my 401K gets fed every month. However, there are certain times in the fiscal year -- a stipend at the end of a semester, a tax refund, an optional summer school course -- where some discretionary income gets pumped into the local economy, and that money is what I permit myself to spend on instruments.

[dang]

It seems to me that these days there is a proliferation of mandolins priced north of $7500, and I'm curious as to who is buying them.

To put a perspective on where I'm coming from, I live in the SF Bay Area...

I can barely afford to visit California, move here to Omaha and I bet you can afford one or two...

Also, I spent lots of years in schools getting a masters and a doctorate - and I am still not in the >$7500 range mandolin, not till I get some student loans paid off. And that's living in Nebraska my whole life. If I sold every instrument I own I could probably have ONE in that range.

But I do hope to have one really nice one at some point....

[Charles E.]

One has to realize that for today's modern builders the cost of building an affordable mandolin,esp, an F-5 is challenging. Equipment, tooling and raw materials are expensive. A quality USA (or other) small shop made mandolin is worth the coin in my opinion.

[JeffD]

I'm curious as to how people think of their mandolin purchases in relation to their income.

I just don't think that way. The mandolin is a single purchase, the salary (Lord willing) keeps coming.

I judge a potential purchase by two main criteria.

1 - is it accurately valued at that price. That's the stuff we discuss all the time. Is that the cost of a mandolin that good? Can I get it for significantly less?

2 - what else in my life will that much by me, that may be more important or more urgent, or bring me more joy. Multiple five figures, in my life, is better spent elsewhere, replacing a vehicle, adding a room to the house, buying an RV, etc. If I have the important stuff covered, and the other items competing for my purchase don't seem as much fun, good to go.

If the purchase meets these two then I go on to the next step of how can I get it done. What is in my MAS jar and how long will it take to get it up to the task at hand.

I don't consider the reasonableness of the purchase in relation to my income, or to how other people spend. Just me.


When I see folks purchasing luxury items, especially showy things that sit in the driveway or at the dock. I always assume (and probably correctly in most cases) that they can't afford the item and have gone into debt to get it.

I have never financed a mandolin.

[Br1ck]

I am not at all saying that $7500 is not a fair price for a nice mandolin or not worth it. I have in my life spent $12,000 on a cello, and $5000 on a viola. The cello is still my eldest daughter's backup instrument. This was when I was playing a 000 16 Martin I bought used.

I live in a $700,000 2 bedroom, one bath hundred year old bungalow in a neighborhood that was considered a blighted neighborhood 13 years ago. I guess my life extravagance is continuing to live here when I could cash out, and just as people continue to live in NYC or Boston, or Chicago, or any other urban area, because of the cultural richness, I just like it here. Doesn't hurt to have grandchildren 20 minutes away. So yes, it has affected my disposable income, and that money tends to be spent on home improvements, and art, things that both the wife and I enjoy.

I remember the other half saying she would like to buy paintings when she was still working. When I asked how much she was thinking of spending she said around $15,000. We did. And there was the trailer so we could go camping in comfort and travel.

But a mandolin is only for me, and I could sell vintage audio equipment and guitars and easily buy a Northfield Big Mon or some such, and just may do that depending on how my Arches kit turns out. And really, gardening and music are really all I do, so it's not like I golf. Oh, there is the single malt scotch habit but my consumption is not enough to dent my budget.

I guess it's a curiosity. I had a friend who inherited a fortune and was buying a $9,000 arch top in Gryphon one day I happened to be there. As he was checking out he spotted a $4,000 acoustic that caught his eye, strummed it once or twice and took that too. I spend more time contemplating buying a pair of socks. So yes, it is very much how one sets one's priorities, and it is not a judgement I seek to make but rather one's own outlook I seek to understand, as music really is the major avocation in my life and I have set limits.

It is interesting to note that sometime later I asked my friend if he had sold his father's house. He said he had bought so many guitars, he needed it for storage. But every purchase pleased him a little bit less than the last one did. It's all a matter of perspective.

[LadysSolo]

Just as an example, when we were building this house, many of my co-workers asked why we didn't build a bigger house - my response was that I wasn't going to clean a bigger house. There is a very expensive area near here, and one of the subcontractors lived near there. All his kids' friends all spent their time at his house. He asked his kids why they didn't go to their friends' much larger and fancier houses, and they told him because they didn't have any furniture! Spent all their money on the huge house, and couldn't furnish it! Priorities........

[Pittsburgh Bill]

While all of my mandolins were South of $ 2.5 K and some considerably less, I find mandolins and related "stuff" to require very minitive financial investment as compared to my previous hobby of racing sports cars. So everything is relative and we have to decide what is important to us.
I, personally would not buy a $7.5 K mandolin because all of my mandolins can out play me with exception to my BackPacker. A seven thousand dollar mandolin in my hands would provide little improvement.

[Louise NM]

A trophy mandolin is a lot less expensive than a Porsche/Ferrari/Corvette, a trophy house, a race horse, lots of other luxuries. For someone who plays a lot, it may be the one big luxury they allow themselves. An instrument is something that is (we hope) used daily, or close to it. Expensive instruments are often drop-dead gorgeous: works of art as well as functional pieces. All reasons for the attraction.

Then there's the antiques market, and the hope that a mandolin will continue to appreciate. Always a dodgy investment strategy, but that sure doesn't stop it. Look at the price of old Italian violins—Stradivari, Amati, Guarneri—compared to where they were 50 years ago.

Interesting that, so far, no one has said "They sound so much better than $4000 mandolins." $7500 may be well past the point of diminishing returns as far as sound goes.

As far as how people think of instrument purchases in relation to their income, I can only speak for myself. Our household income is pretty low, and luxuries are generally in the "cheap thrills" category, especially until we are done getting the last kid through college. My mandolin was a one-in-a-million find: a handmade instrument sitting forlornly in an antique shop with a price in the exceedingly low three-figure range. Other instruments, I have bought with inheritances. My violin with a savings bond from my father that had to be cashed in—half went to the music store, the other half into my IRA. (I think Dad would have approved.) My viola, somewhat similar circumstances.

I replaced a 23-year-old car with a five-year-old one a couple of years ago, most travel has to do with family, I don't spend money on gold and diamonds. I spend many hours a week playing music, and having instruments that make me happy, and that are up to what I ask of them, has been well worth it. I'm nowhere near ready for a $7500 mandolin, and chances are I never will be, but if someone else wants one, and can do it without incurring debt, divorce, or shut-off utilities and a repossessed car, live it up.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From RayT - "...now I can afford to spend it before I get too old to enjoy it.". If you lived in a 150 year old house with things constantly going wrong & needing replacing you couldn't. I've got the cash to buy my dream mandolin,my long coveted Ellis F5,but i know only too well that if i did,something would go wrong that i'd need the cash for,so i simply daren't. Four years ago i had to fork out close to £6,000 in one 12 month period for necessary work to be done. Right now,it's a new front door coming up at a cost of £900 inc.fitting,just one of 'this years' jobs - & on it goes.

How much you spend is usually down to how much you can afford & is it worth it ?. Different folks have different priorities. I'd always say that if you can afford it without impoverishing your family in any way,then that's fine - go for it.

I've been very lucky - my only 'brand new' mandolin was my Weber "Fern",bought just after i retired 10 years ago at a cost of £3,675 UK with some of the cash i got as a retirement settlement. Only 6 weeks later,the banking crisis happened & the same mandolin went up in cost by £800 UK .A few weeks later it went up by another £500. A new Weber "Fern" now costs £7,695 UK,a price i'd never have considered back then.
My Lebeda & Ellis were bought 'used',
Ivan

[fscotte]

That's why buying used from another player is the best way to guarantee not spending cash, but transferring wealth. You can always sell it again and transfer the cash back to you.

Spending money only happens when you purchase something that loses value after the sale.

[fatt-dad]

I started putting $80/mo into a mutual fund account. Heck, that was 15 years ago. Like pheff, I was already funding for the kids' college, my 401K and paying all bills. If I'd get some random money, it'd go into the mutual fund too. My thought being if I wanted a $5,000 mandolin, it'd take some time. . .

Now that I have the money, I never bought my high-dollar f-model. Quite happy with the two sub-$3K a-models that I've picked up (commissioned) along the way.

Now, it's just my new-car fund. Waiting for my wagon to die. 320,000 miles and I'm still fixing it!

f-d

[JEStanek]

I think there's not that huge a proliferation of $7500+ mandolins. Meaning, I don't think everyone is buying one. Boutique (small shop hand made) instruments are a niche within a niche market. The majority of mandolins floating around in the world (literally floating on container ships from Asia to the US) are imports in the $50-$2k range. Many of those are good instruments than can serve a person well.

I can't begrudge a person what they spend their money on without sounding like a cheapskate (I kind of am) or jealous (I'm kind of not). I hope people aren't sacrificing health or security for an instrument, especially if they are just hobby players (i.e. not earning a livelihood from it). But, even if they are, that's their problem and not mine.

The more expensive things I've bought for myself other than a home or car, I've saved for until I could buy it. I've even had to dip into that savings fund to take care of "life" events that got in the way. So be it!

Who would hazard a guess on the output of $7,500+ new F style mandolins put into the world in a given year? Even if I include Collings, Weber, and Gibson models along with the small shop builders, I would guess around 1000-3000 new instruments breaking that price point a year. But I wouldn
t be surprised if I heard the number was only in the hundreds.

Jamie

[William Smith]

I really never had much $ but I worked pretty hard for what I have, I enjoy playing nice old instruments. Have a small ranch style house pretty much in the boonies on property that my parents gave me. My first good piece was a 57 D-18 with red spruce top in 97-I still have but I was fortunate to get some decent mandolins/guitars and trade up till I got what I want "for now" Started with cheap instruments and just worked my way up. Bought one paid it off and on it went. I know I lost some $ in some trades but hey thats how it goes to get what ya want. Don't know if it improved my playing with high buck mandos, maybe a bit but it sure is a fun hobby. I'm lucky I have a great wife that lets me do things, as long as bills are paid and kids are good. I'm a stay at home dad do to some serious health issues, I've learned that time is short so enjoy life and if that means going after something that brings you some joy in your off time "hard to find time with 2 little ones" but when I play I want to play something nice and a potential investment so thats why I recently traded up for a 30's fern. It may not be the best mandolin in the world I have freak 30's Wood F-7 conversion thats better in some ways but they only made so many F-5's in the 30's and I think mine is pretty good compared to some I've played. Also if it stays I'm sure the kids will like to inherit it if they take interest or if times get tough I can get something out of it or the wife and kids. So in my opinion if its what ya want what is stopping you. Life is short but that doesn't mean ya can't have some fun in my opinion

[JeffD]

Heck, when you think about it, I can't afford a free mandolin.

[AndrewF5]

I think the OP is looking for a response from someone like me, because I bought a mandolin that cost over 7,500 and spent more for it than appropriate for my salary/life situation. I bought a new Ellis F5. It was my dream, lifetime mandolin. I make a decent living, but in no means have the disposable income that I should have to justifiably buy a 12k mandolin. I have kids, a mortgage, school debt, etc. But I did it anyway. Here was my thinking: Playing bluegrass mandolin is a top priority in life, just under family. I love it and there is nothing else I'd rather do. If I go a day without practicing/playing mandolin, I am annoyed and something seems off. I figured that I spend thousands each year on gas, insurance, groceries, and countless other things, but have nothing to show for those expenses at the end of the year. Yet, it is a given that I will have to spend that money. So, I decided that I was going to pay a huge, one-time payment to indulge my passion. I could have spent a fraction of what I did for a more modest mandolin, but I knew I would always lust for a "better" one. Also, I am in my prime playing years now. I didn't want to wait until I was retired or even older to buy a dream instrument. I decided, with my wife's blessing, to buy my dream mandolin now so that I'd have decades left to enjoy it. It was definitely a stretch financially, and I'm sure a financial planner would say it was irresponsible, but because this is a deep passion, I don't care. I'd rather sacrifice in other areas. My car has 180k miles and runs fine. I'll keep it until it doesn't run anymore, and then buy used. Maybe get one a few thousand less than I normally would have. Who knows. The point is, if mandolin playing is a top 2-3 priority in my life, my spending should reflect that. If I only dabbled in mandolin, played it only when I felt like it, or was like a jack of all trades musician who liked to play a bunch of instruments, I definitely would have spent much, much less. However, I only play mandolin, and take it very seriously. I also bought it new, which some might say is foolish because of the resale hit I'd take. Whatever. I have no plans to ever resell the Ellis to fund another mandolin purchase. I wanted to be the only one to play it out of the gate, and to learn its nuances and experience its changes over its life and mine. I'm not a huge gear person. I value an amazing instrument, but I know that 90% of my ability as a mandolinist comes with practice and experience. There is no other mandolin out there for me which would suit me better. I tried many mandolins in my search, including some less and more expensive, but none had that amazing Ellis "pop" and clarity. It is just a perfect instrument, and I have zero regrets buying it even if I technically shouldn't have from a financial perspective. When I take my last breath in this life, I will think back on decades (hopefully!) of pleasure the Ellis bought me, not the few thousand dollars "lost" by spending arguably too much.