Opinions: K&K Twin vs. Myers Pick-ups

[Alex Orr]

I'm sick of playing into a mic, especially in the frequently loud and acoustically miserable environments my band typically plays. We're a six piece bluegrass band with four instrument mics on stage (as well as a fifth stand for the vocal condenser mic) and considering that a lot of the place we play don't even have a stage, it gets cramped. Even more to the point, I just hate playing into a mic. I like to move around a bit, I hate having to focus on keeping the instrument in a perfect position in front of the mic to be properly heard when taking a break and to keep from fading in and out of the mix, and mic feedback is a mess with our band. I've seen a couple of local bands recently that have mandolin players who sound perfectly fine to my ears using a DI set-up. So....

From what I've read on the forums it sounds like the K&K Twin receives near unanimous praise. That said, the mando player form one of the bands that really convinced me I should I at least give this a shot plays through a Myers gooseneck pickup that he runs through an LR Baggs Para DI Acoustic Preamp.

So, does anyone have any thoughts on which way to go? Also, for those who use the K&K, what are your thoughts on a pre-amp? I've read in a few threads that the things are hot enough to just go straight into the mixer. Thanks!

[almeriastrings]

If you "hate mics" I'd suggest you avoid the Myers simply on the basis that it IS a microphone (despite the misleading label as as a "pickup"), and an omnidirectional one at that...in restricted spaces, with monitors or mains close by, a recipe for feedback hell.

It sounds like the K&K would probably suit you.

The output is "hot" - but the jack impedance on most mixers is far too low. Some of the Allen + Heath Zed range do have a couple of ultra-high impedance (10M) jacks, but most desks don't. Problem easily solved with a high impedance active DI box or preamp. Then run via XLR into the mic input of your console.

[Loubrava]

I bought one, used it twice now it's on a shelf somewhere it works but IMO it sucks for playing with a band. I then bought a Godin A8 it's plug and play at any volume any venue no worries. But I play in a 5 piece rock/country band at the time it was a very simple soloution. I'd take the advice you got on the forum and go K&K stay away from the Myers.
Lou

[pops1]

I have tried many solutions to amplification, and many different installs with the K&K. It is what I have been using for a few years now and it gives me a very good sound with no problems. If you are playing loud and you use a tone guard you may want to take it off and let the back not vibrate as much, it will help. I have had no problems doing either, tho with a Schertler the tone guard didn't work at all.

[mandroid]

K&K is a piezo-electric based source, shaken it makes a little signal, so then you put a preamp in the signal chain..
K&K makes a PreAmp too.

[Billkwando]

Don't forget about JJB, which is ostensibly the same thing as the K&K (or so I'm told), at a fraction of the cost.

You can hear bits of mine here, recorded direct, with no preamp:
https://youtu.be/ZKqRfijoCe8?t=10m37s
https://youtu.be/naG9-kxodXU?t=14m50s

That's with a cheapo The Loar LM-300 mandolin, so I can imagine the sound would only get better with a nicer one.

[pops1]

Don't forget about JJB, which is ostensibly the same thing as the K&K (or so I'm told), at a fraction of the cost.

You can hear bits of mine here, recorded direct, with no preamp:
https://youtu.be/ZKqRfijoCe8?t=10m37s
https://youtu.be/naG9-kxodXU?t=14m50s

That's with a cheapo The Loar LM-300 mandolin, so I can imagine the sound would only get better with a nicer one.

There is a difference the JJB pickup for mandolin is also for archtop guitar, parlor guitar and some others. The K&K is a larger thicker pickup designed and sold for mandolin only. It is different than all other pickups in their line by both size and thickness. So while similar they are distinctly different. And yes they cost more.

[Billkwando]

There is a difference the JJB pickup for mandolin is also for archtop guitar, parlor guitar and some others. The K&K is a larger thicker pickup designed and sold for mandolin only. It is different than all other pickups in their line by both size and thickness. So while similar they are distinctly different. And yes they cost more.

I don't think the piezo is any different, only the casing around it. For the record, mine is the 20mm. JJB offers a 15mm version as well.

I've heard reputable installers state that the difference between JJB and K&K is mainly the price. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, anyone.


Edit: In fact, I remember JJB trying to upsell me on the mandolin version of their pickup when I contacted them over email regarding the guitar version I had just ordered. When pressed for details on the difference, it turned out that the guitar version is the same 20mm piezo(s), only with a longer cable.

I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if it were the same for K&K.

I call it the "Mandolin Premium". It costs more, simple because we will pay more (usually).

Edit 2: I also heard that the K&K version is less rigid as well (bendy), so maybe that's the one difference for the mando version, but I had no problems mounting the stiff JJB piezo inside my F holes.

[pops1]

In speaking with Deiter at K&K over the years, this was several years ago, as they were working on the mandolin pickup I was told it was thicker than their other pickups. I have installed and removed several of them experimenting with placement and have not broken any as of yet. Just removed a pair and tried an new placement on an X braced mandolin as I didn't like the sound with X bracing in the typical placement. These are not flexible and thin (bendy). I have other K&K pickups and these are thicker.

[Alex Orr]

Thanks everyone. Please feel free to continue the discussion but I went with a K&K and an LR Baggs Para 1 preamp. Having zero experience in this kind of stuff I'm getting it installed by a pro. I'm lucky to have a local luthier who always does great work on my mandolin and who also has plenty of experience installing PUPs. I look forward to seeing how this will sound at future gigs. With any luck this Saturday's gig will be the last time I have to deal with playing into my old Shure SM57.

[almeriastrings]

I'm sure that will work for you. A tried and tested combination.

To be fair to mics, though, there is life beyond the old SM57! For example, you can get very good levels before feedback and extremely high fidelity from the better clip-on mics such as the AT PRO 35, AT ATM350 and DPA4099. All of these are really excellent. There are also a number of stand-mounted mics that considerably outperform the SM57 in terms of off-axis rejection and sonic accuracy. The SM57 is a classic mic, and certainly can do good job, but it is far from the only game in town, especially these days.

[jessejsaunders]

I've installed a bunch of pickups over the years, and am a big fan of the JJB pickups. They pair really well with LR Baggs' Venue and ParaDIs.

[varmonter]

I have a kk twin in my ellis. Installed by tom ellis.
It sounds great. I run it through a 1 mohm pre by
Grace design. But the less expensive kk pres soun
Good as well. Cant comment on myers. Never even
Heard one.

[Tim Griffin]

If you can get your hands on a Red Eye you will find it is much better sounding than the PARA DI.

[Steve Ostrander]

I have tried Dean Markley, JJB and K&K. The K&K sounds best to my ear. I run direct into my Fishman Loudbox Artist, then DI out to a board if we are using one. No complaints.

[tomnottom]

I use a K&K in my Gibson F5 into a radial PZ Deluxe. Play out 3 times monthly in different venues into a PA. I set the the bass and treble at 9 o'clock mids rolled off completely in the 670 range. It gives me the closest I have gotten to a natural sound with a little reverb added in the PA mix. I've owned the grace Alix too and loved it, but live once I'm playing the difference wasn't that big of a deal breaker. The radial worked great and was $400 cheaper.

[Brad Sicotte]

I just did a video comparing my K&K and Myers Pick Ups. I really like the Red-Eye preamp and now use the K&K full time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQbX-Zi5wyE