On to chords

[sbhikes]

I do not know chords. I have figured out some on my own just because there they are in the tunes and you sort of find them after 10 years.

I got an instrument tuned CGDA so I downloaded two-finger tenor guitar/banjo chords from somewhere on here. But as usual, some of the chords do not sound right at all. This seems to be a problem I find with most chord charts. Some of the chords just can't be right. They sound awful.

I'm thinking maybe I will make my own chord chart that has no "mistakes". Do you ever make up your own chords that sound better? Is it just me or do you also find mistakes in a lot of chord charts?

[Jared Heddinger]

What do you mean they don't sound right? As in they sound bad all the time, or just the context of a song?

[Bill McCall]

Building chords is easy, if you understand the structure. Understanding how they relate to a tune is another matter.

I haven't seen any 'wrong' chord charts. Perhaps you could point out links so others won't be impacted?

The links here and at Mandozine are both great resources for chords and I have found them both useful and accurate. No mileage variance either.

[JeffD]

But as usual, some of the chords do not sound right at all. This seems to be a problem I find with most chord charts. Some of the chords just can't be right. They sound awful.

I have never found a mistake in a chord chart. I am wondering if you perhaps are not interpreting the chart correctly? Maybe switched left to right or starting on the wrong fret or something. Post a "wrong" chart if you can, and we'll sort it out and get you playing chords in no time.

[Mark Gunter]

Do you ever make up your own chords that sound better?

I find chords often, trial & error plus a smidgen of music theory knowledge, but that's not really "making up chords", more like discovering the fingerings for them. Guaranteed somebody has them charted somewhere.

Is it just me or do you also find mistakes in a lot of chord charts?

Don't think I've ever experienced that, JeffD has it right, would be great for you to share some examples.

I have The Mandolin Chord Bible by Tobe A. Richards now, 2,736 mandolin chords, and each chart has the intervals marked beneath the chord box - it's a great resource. Don't overlook the cafe's chord finder under the Learn/Listen tab either.

[UsuallyPickin]

Well .... you are playing an instrument tuned in fifths so there are some go to chord forms you can use and interpret the chord names from the tones played. Any mandolin chord chart will show you the shapes. The reach will have to be taken into account but the three finger and two finger forms will work fine..... keep in mind open strings will only work sometimes. R/

[JeffD]

keep in mind open strings will only work sometimes.

That is also a good point. Make sure to distinguish between chords with open strings, and chords where you leave strings out of your strum.

[Jess L.]

... I got an instrument tuned CGDA so I downloaded two-finger tenor guitar/banjo chords from somewhere on here. But as usual, some of the chords do not sound right at all. This seems to be a problem I find with most chord charts. Some of the chords just can't be right. They sound awful. ...

Just a wild guess here... if an instrument's intonation is way off (for instance, if a floating bridge is in the wrong place etc), a chord's fretted notes might be so far off-key that they sound noticeably bad.

Other than that, what everyone else has said.

[farmerjones]

All that said above, but also remember stuff like a II (not a ii), or a 9ths, 10ths, & 11ths, sound quite dissonant (not sweet).
The best chord maker/charter/checker I've found is a piano.

[Simon DS]

Just a wild guess here... if an instrument's intonation is way off (for instance, if a floating bridge is in the wrong place etc), a chord's fretted notes might be so far off-key that they sound noticeably bad.

Other than that, what everyone else has said.

Also if the bridge/action is high then the tuning of each fretted note on the different strings in the chord will be slightly different as you go up the neck. And there are the three or more different inversions to think about. And tone- if you want a guitar sounding chord tone you may be disappointed.

[Simon DS]

You could just start with double stops, that is two notes together. Try simply playing your melody note and add the note on the string below, that is the next fatter string, but one fret towards the nut. That's the major third and works if your melody note is a I, IV or V. There's a vertical line on the fretboard, from sky to ground it's the IV then the I and finally the V of the scale you're playing. They're all next to each other, and all take a major third. Pretty cool really. For all the other notes in your melody you can add the note on the string below but TWO frets towards the nut, that's the minor third of each melody note. Check out jazzmando.com for some exercises. Good luck.
(This might seem strange, and I don't know if it helps but if you imagine the fretboard as a forest of notes, then you'll see there's a freeway running sky to ground right through the forest, it starts on the IV, just anonymous trees before that, then your log cabin which is the I then, V,II,VI,III,VII. At the VII it's stops. For impro, you want to try to root on your home on the fourth string, then there are three other cabins that are pretty close, jumping to each one in turn without using the freeway can be a good exercise)

[HonketyHank]

Maybe the OP could post an example of a chord diagram that is obviously wrong and mention which strings don't sound right?

[sbhikes]

Darn it, I left the paper with the chords at home and now I can't find the charts in google. It's a great pdf with each page laid out in different formats. One page I printed out was in a circle with the fourth to the left and the fifth to the right of each chord.

But here, look at this chart (this is NOT the chart I printed and it's for mandolin, not tenor banjo). The A chord cannot be right. That would sound awful:

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/242561129902216258

Are you saying that some of these chord charts assume you won't play all the strings? If so, that would make more sense for that A chord.

This is why I feel I need to figure out my own charts so they aren't a mixture of two string + two finger and four string + two finger chords.

[A 4]

I think you beat me to my answer. I can't blow up that chart, but the only way that A chord works is only striking the A and the E strings. A better two string A chord is technically an A5 (I guess), or 2 2 0 0, but now we are getting into the weeds...

From an earlier thread, I think you are playing Oldtime. To start, you only need five chords: D G A E and C for most of the repertoire. Rather than learn all the chords on a chart, start with simple versions of those:
G: 0023
C:0230
D:2002
A:2234, but when I show new people, I suggest 2200 to start
E:well, 4224, I guess, but that is hard. You can play part of it 42xx, or xx24, which I do not think would much oomph, but might add some color. Never tried that one, and no mandolin nearby. Or 122x, but that one never sounds good to me. Maybe avoid playing in A for awhile.

But, my larger point is that when starting, find simple versions of just a few chords, and practice making them sound good and moving between them, rather than learning lots of chords.

And practice whomping hard on 'em!

[Mark Gunter]

A couple of thoughts, just suggestions. First, there are many ways to play a chord, try different voicings. On a chord chart, generally, if there is an "X" over the chart on an unfingered string, then don't play that string. You can either not strum it, or you can find a way to deaden it. If there is an "o" over the chart on an unfingered string, you should play the open string as part of the chord.

Second, don't assume that a chord fingering is hard just because someone else finds it difficult. Almost all chords on stringed instruments are hard, for beginners. So don't hesitate to work at it a bit until your fingers learn what to do.

Here are a few examples of two finger A chord voicings:

xx45 (root plus 3rd)

2200 (root plus 5th)

x740 (full triad - 3-1-5)

There are too many combinations to show, even without consulting any charts or books, just starting with those shapes and adding one or two fingers in the right spots!

To go along with my first suggestion I'd encourage to learn to play chords without "using all four strings" - why limit yourself to "must play all four strings"?

There is always more than one way to skin a possum.

[John Kelly]

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/242561129902216258[/url]

Are you saying that some of these chord charts assume you won't play all the strings? If so, that would make more sense for that A chord.

This is why I feel I need to figure out my own charts so they aren't a mixture of two string + two finger and four string + two finger chords.

The chart you highlight clearly notes that the chords on it are 2-finger chords. However, from the chords shown, I'd say that you play only the strings with positions marked on them - the top A has the G and D strings omitted, for example. We think of 2-finger chords using all four strings in many cases, but the chart you show should maybe be thought of as 2-note chords.

[bobby bill]

The chart you highlight clearly notes that the chords on it are 2-finger chords

In defense of the OP, I don't find it clear. I would assume a 2-finger chord to be a chord using all of the strings and two fingers. Like: G: 0023; C: 0230; D: 2002; or even amin7: 2233. I think I would refer to a two-NOTE chord as a double stop.

That said, the very best solution is for the OP to learn how to spell the chords and where the notes are on the fret board. Chord charts are great when first dipping your toe in the water. But when you free yourself from the charts, you also learn there are a gazillion more options. And knowing how to spell an A major chord would tell you that the open G and D strings are not part of that chord.

If the OP wants to consult charts (and plays an instrument tuned to CGDA), take any mandolin chart and rename the chords a fifth lower. What the mandolin chart calls a G major while sound as C major on the CGDA instrument; C major will sound as F major, etc.

[sbhikes]

In defense of the OP, I don't find it clear. I would assume a 2-finger chord to be a chord using all of the strings and two fingers.

Yes, that's what I thought as well. That's why I always thought those chord charts were full of mistakes.

I forget what the A chord was for the tenor banjo/guitar chart, but I think it was either too hard or maybe was a 2-finger chord that you weren't supposed to play all the strings. I figured out my own A chord that was easier to go back and forth with a D chord.

The instrument I have is a strumstick uke that I tuned like a mandola/tenor banjo/guitar. A friend thought I should learn how to play banjo uke to replace our guitar player. I know real ukuleles aren't tuned like tenor banjos, and it's probably a waste of time to learn chords this way, but I figured I could at least learn where the chord changes are in case I wanted to go down this path at all.

[JonZ]

Read this and you'll be cording like a boss.
http://www.calgaryuke.com/ukerichard...nstruments.pdf

[farmerjones]

I see it as two things. There knowing how to derive chords from a scale, and then secondly, learning to play chords in real time. Sure, it's great to know both. In practice I don't even think in terms of I, IV, V (Nashville numbers). I think, key of D, G & A. Or, key of G, C & D. Meaning, in the key of D, G=IV, and A=V, etc. Minors, ii, iii, and vi, are easier to hear in a progression, so they get put in as needed. What's nice is one can play thousands of tunes/songs with three chords in a few easy keys. One doesn't need to know about Augmented 6ths until one runs across it in one or two tunes. No sense in knowing how to play in C#minor until it happens, because it may never happen. Knowing how to derive the I, ii, iii IV, V, vi, vii in the key of C# is handy, but I've played in C#minor, taken breaks, the whole schmear, I couldn't tell you the name of the chords nor the name of the notes, I was playing. I still got paid.

[Mark Wilson]

That's why I always thought those chord charts were full of mistakes.

Can you cut and paste an image here of one of the chords you found that doesn't seem right?

[Tom Haywood]

I'm a little bit confused here. It sounds like you are playing a rhythm instrument but not playing chords, using an alternative tuning for the instrument (not the standard tuning for it), and looking at chord charts for some other instruments? In any event, every chord chart should have an "X" above any string that is not played in the chord shown and an "O" above any string that is played open in the chord. There are no assumptions to be made about which strings to play. If you see a chart that does not have the x's and o's, don't use it. The chart you linked has this in the middle for the tenor banjo, etc. Most chord charts I've seen have a few of the voicings you want, but have lots of chords that don't sound right in the context you want to use them because they aren't quite the right voicing. If you had asked about chords for mandolin and old-time music, I would suggest looking up two-finger chords in the 1st position for the keys you play in, stick with those and don't worry about the three- and four-finger chords. That might not work so well with a tenor banjo or guitar tuning. There is nothing wrong with finding your own chord voicings that work in the music you are playing.

[Bertram Henze]

I have always built my own chords, based on this step-by-step method:
- build a triad on the base note the chord is named after, i.e. a major third + a fifth for major chords (A-C#-E for Amajor), a minor third + a fifth for minor chords (A-C-E for A minor).
- search where I find any of those three notes on the fretboard, easily reachable, using as many open strings as possible. For A, this is AEae (2200), with the third missing and thus fitting both A major and minor.
- bonus step: if I couldn't arrive at a feasible solution with the triad notes, I try if I can do other cool notes out of the respective scale, such as a 7th or a 4th - for instance, instead of 4422 for B, I like to do 4400 for B7sus4 (I have noticed that the less fingers you use, the more complicated the chord names become).

That is if I know the name of the chord wanted in advance. OTOH when I have to find chords for a given melody, I just try what sounds good with the melody, and maybe (just maybe) find out the chord names later (which can be frustrating since some of my findings would fit several complicated names. Good luck finding out what 0011 is called).

Some of the abovementioned 2-finger-shortcurts can be seen here.

[JeffD]

The instrument I have is a strumstick uke that I tuned like a mandola/tenor banjo/guitar.

I think that explains it then. I think.

A strum stick is meant to be strum, and strum all strings through. Guitars, mandolins, banjos, whatever, have many chords that you can strum all the strings, but many that you don't. My limited experience with a strumstick was that it was difficult to strum only some of the strings.

[bratsche]

OTOH when I have to find chords for a given melody, I just try what sounds good with the melody, and maybe (just maybe) find out the chord names later.

That's what I do as well, only I seldom bother to find out what they are. As long as it sounds good, that's all I care about.

bratsche