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Thread: Character over practice?

  1. #1

    Default Character over practice?

    I've seen it suggested more than once that for a musician to progress quickest, it's more important to be a well-rounded person, than to narrowly focus on technique improvement.

    There is a lot of leeway for discussion here - certainly several virtuosi come to mind who were far from paragons.

    Not that I wish to escape practicing scales and arpeggios - but does one's music improve more rapidly if one strives to improve one's character first and foremost?

    Thanks for any replies to this vague philosophical question.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Character over practice?

    I'll bite.

    Music is an emotional expression of one's experiences. Therefore, the more interesting the experiences (person), the more potential for interesting music.
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    Registered User John Rosett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Character over practice?

    I think that you have to do both.You need to be well-rounded, and have "character" in order to have something to say, but you need to have technique in order to express yourself.
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    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Character over practice?

    You have to practise in order to live with your music.
    You have to have character in order to live with yourself, and that takes practising as well.
    You need both for your soul to survive.
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  8. #5

    Default Re: Character over practice?

    No. You get there through deliberate practice.
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    Registered User Louise NM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Character over practice?

    I think this question is much more pertinent to child prodigies than adults. I assume, T-E-F, that ship sailed long ago, and you have a driver's license, a credit card, and a lawnmower? Plenty of life experience?

    With child prodigies, the ones that were allowed to be kids (violinist Joshua Bell comes to mind) seem to be much happier, healthier adults, and far less likely to spin out along the way (see Michael Rabin, another violinist, or a whole passel of child actors).

    Building character and building musical techniques are both lifelong pursuits, and no one is ever finished with either. Just when you think you have it down and can coast for awhile, along comes a new challenge, thanks to a family member or a songwriter. As others have said, the more you have in yourself—joy, heartache, miles traveled—the more you can bring to your music. A weekend getaway at the Grand Canyon won't do the same thing for your playing a weekend woodshedding will, though. Don't sacrifice your life for music, and don't sacrifice your music for the mundane parts of life.

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    Registered User usqebach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Character over practice?

    Interesting concept. Not buying in completely, but there may be a little something in it.

    To me, Bruce Molsky described it best "music is like language, and your playing is your voice." If you spend your life in a bubble, mindlessly practicing scales, licks, riffs, etc, then you are essentially parroting other people's voices. You have to have some exposure to outside experiences to come up with your own unique voice. However, Alasdair Fraser on the musical voice: "Each style of music has it's own bowing, phrasing, ornamentation, etc, and it's important to learn it and incorporate it before interpreting it." (on approaching a style or discipline casually "Don't be an uninformed voice!"

    I realize that isn't exactly (or perhaps even closely!) to your point, but I at least want to add credence to the necessity of practice and rigor before thinking that "life character" makes good music.
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    Default Re: Character over practice?

    I think that it takes both - practicing music builds character (patience, perseverance, etc,) and life experience gives expression to your music.
    But you have to have the notes in order to give expression to them, so I think discipline may be the more important (note I didn't say the most important.)

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  16. #9

    Default Re: Character over practice?

    Quote Originally Posted by JonZ View Post
    No. You get there through deliberate practice.
    Agreed. I can't think of any pro basketball players who didn't spend their youth shooting baskets. It is all about technique. Character, style, life experience will all come later with time.....

    FWIW, I had been playing guitar for 20 years, played in bands, etc., then moved to a different city, didn't know anyone, had a lot of time on my hands so I started practicing 8-10 hours a day for a little over a year. Well, in that year I became 10 times the musician I had been a year earlier -- all do to practice and the desire to be a better musician.

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    Default Re: Character over practice?

    It seems to me that creativity is limited by the ability to express it.
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    Default Re: Character over practice?

    Character can be shaped, if not defined, by that which one forgoes in order to pursue one's desired goals.

    So if you give up on the bulk of normal social activities in order to improve your skills as a musician, that effectively prevents you from becoming "well-rounded", so to speak. But it may elevate you into a level of musicianship that exceeds what most people can attain.

    On the other hand, if you live life on the edge, pushing the envelope of what is possible while still surviving, that might come out in your music, but, I think, only if you already have the internal capacity to make great music.

    I can easily come up with examples of both extremes, but the second usually only applies to those whose performing venue is in the "popular" sphere.

  21. #12

    Default Re: Character over practice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Mando View Post
    Agreed. I can't think of any pro basketball players who didn't spend their youth shooting baskets. It is all about technique. Character, style, life experience will all come later with time.....
    Joel Embiid of KU and, now, the Philadelphia 76ers, didn't start playing basketball until he was 15.

    There are some other late starters. Similarly, there are some musicians who got a late start.

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    Default Re: Character over practice?

    Quote Originally Posted by T-E-F View Post
    I've seen it suggested more than once that for a musician to progress quickest, it's more important to be a well-rounded person, than to narrowly focus on technique improvement..
    It depends what you mean my progress. I think that is the biggest issue - an ill defined idea of what one wants to be as a musician.

    I wrote about that here.

    If by well rounded you mean the stuff you need to know besides arpeggios, here is my thinking.

    I don't know if I like the dichotomy you are implying. I think it is important to be a well-rounded person, AND I think it is important to practice a lot, AND I think one of the many things that need to be focused on in practice is technique.

    I think you really have to do it all. Which of course is impossible. That is where having a clear goals, that can be written down in a few crisp sentences, is important.

    Of course if one is a genius and/or has that level of extreme talent - none of this discussion is pertinent. Such a person needs only to follow the talent where it goes.
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    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Character over practice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob A View Post
    So if you give up on the bulk of normal social activities in order to improve your skills as a musician, that effectively prevents you from becoming "well-rounded", so to speak. But it may elevate you into a level of musicianship that exceeds what most people can attain.
    If you fascinate people with your technical excellence they'll give you a lot of leeway for being a sociopath. They will applaude your antics on stage being glad that you're on stage and they're not. They will applaude your last journey to the grave being glad they have recordings of your music without the need of meeting you personally any more.
    It's a bit like what W.B Yeats had written on his epitaph - Cast a cold eye on life, on death. Horseman, pass by!

    I'd far rather live without the need to be given leeway for anything, neither poor technique nor poor personality. I prefer giving over taking.
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    Default Re: Character over practice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bowsman View Post
    I'll bite.

    Music is an emotional expression of one's experiences. Therefore, the more interesting the experiences (person), the more potential for interesting music.
    The last thing I want to express when I play music, is my emotions or my experiences. I want to play expressively, absolutely. I want to connect with the audience, but not with me... connect the audience with the music.

    I want to better express what is in the music.

    A song about going to high school, and then going to college, and then not buying that motor cycle, and ... I mean in reality nobody is interested in my experiences or my emotions. The song, the tune, that is what folks want.

    Of course it is important, in expressive playing as in everything else, to connect with and understand one's emotions, sadness, euphoria, fear. But it is in service of expressing what is in the tune.
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    Registered User Jill McAuley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Character over practice?

    I'm not sure how "character" would translate into great technique though? My experience as a lifelong musician is that the whole reason I'm still here playing is because I practiced so much as a kid, which helped establish music as a very integral and ingrained part of my daily life. The more I practiced, the better I got, which was very reinforcing - according to Thorndike's Law of Effect "behavior that is reinforced goes up in frequency". Mastering technique is what allows playing to be effortless. Character may be the quality that helps you persist through the rough spots though, when you're struggling to get to grips with the instrument and sound kind of crummy! So to my thinking it's not a one vs. the other scenario.
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    Default Re: Character over practice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jill McAuley View Post
    My experience as a lifelong musician is that the whole reason I'm still here playing is because I practiced so much as a kid, which helped establish music as a very integral and ingrained part of my daily life.
    I couldn't agree more. My experience entirely.

    Following on from the last bit, I see a lot of kids who play a lot when they are at school and get really pretty good. The trouble is, often when they leave school they no longer have a regular structure (ie a weekly practise session) and eventually get out of the habit of playing.

    I would still play every day even if no-one ever heard me. It is, as Jill very eloquently puts it, 'a very integral and ingrained part of my daily life'. It is, in fact, part of me and a fundamental part of my character, and I still practise because I definitely want to maintain that ability.
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    Default Re: Character over practice?

    Good technique will never get in your way.

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  34. #19

    Default Re: Character over practice?

    Quote Originally Posted by T-E-F View Post
    I've seen it suggested more than once that for a musician to progress quickest, it's more important to be a well-rounded person, than to narrowly focus on technique improvement.

    Not that I wish to escape practicing scales and arpeggios - but does one's music improve more rapidly if one strives to improve one's character first and foremost?
    You get better at what you practice effectively.

    Addressing that "scales and arpeggios" idea...

    When you learned to write, at first you learned to recognize your letters, then to form those letters with a crayon or jumbo pencil, then to combine those letters to make simple words, then to read words faster. Eventually you likely got to where you read each word at a glance, instantly apprehending it in a moment without having to break it down to its constituent letters.

    Then you slowly learned the parts of speech and punctuation, including paragraphs. Perhaps you learned sentence diagramming, as a tool to deeply ingrain the way sentences fit together, so you could effectively put together understandable sentences on the fly.

    Of those who learn to read and write, some feel compelled to create books and stories. Of those, some work in a limited palette as a stylistic choice, while others are limited to such a palette because they don't have anything else. Additionally, some have interesting (to others) things to say, while others don't.

    So, if someone lacks the inclination in their character to create, lacks the technique to create effectively, or the experiences to add perspective and color, their creations will suffer, or will never exist at all. The "well rounded character" will feed the works of the creator, but without a creator who already has a compelling way to express things, all the experiences in the world won't help.

    If someone just wants to repeat back another person's creations, of course, then all one needs is the technique.

    ----

    With all that said, scales and arpeggios are like practicing writing certain words over and over.

    Going further, most people don't ever really learn each note cold like they would a single letter. They can find the note, but it's not an instant thing.

    There's an audio course which teaches what each pitch sounds like, with other courses teaching instantly recognizing intervals. There are computer programs which work the same area, and one of the tools those often have allows one to choose a subset of notes and range, and to work those like a set of flash cards. So, you might choose to have it flash C4 (middle C) and C5, and practice until you instantly know that fifth fret on the G string is notated as C4 and third fret on the A string is notated as C5.

    Then, once you can immediate play the equivalent of the letter A, both capital and lower-case A, you add D4 and D5, the equivalent of capital and lower-case B. You work the D notes alone, then add the C notes.

    Along the way, you might sight read the various tetrachords as you learn enough notes, starting possibly with the C major scale and its various modes. You work those notes in combinations just like a kid learning to read and write common combinations like "cat" and "dog."

    If you add the tool that lets you hear a pitch and then play it, you'll also learn to skip the translation step most people require in music.

    Eventually, you will absolutely learn every note's position in first position, to where you can unhesitatingly sight read the first six frets and the open strings. That's only 28 notes, and you *know* them *cold*, just like you know the 26 letters in their 52 forms (upper and lower case). You can even play all the scales and modes, and easily recognize and play notes and phrases that you hear from others.

    ----

    Most people rely on muscle memory to learn the musical equivalent of writing a specific word (the scales and arpeggios), but never work on using the exact word they would choose, if they had only known it.

    Incidentally, and with no personal financial interest, one computer program which allows/allowed this kind of work is EarMaster, and one can often find the various David Lucas Burge audio courses (perfect pitch, relative pitch, interval training) not just at PerfectPitch.com, but used on eBay. I picked the three audio courses up on CD for less than $60 total, including the books, years ago.

    ----

    Now, a question which has occurred to me over the years is, how many people really want to work what I just outlined? That's something each person must answer individually, but it gets to the person's actual character. Are they a creator? Do they want to perfectly play another person's music? Do they just want to pick common tunes? Each person must choose to reach for a higher goal in order to progress beyond their current skill level.

    Just some thoughts!
    ----

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  36. #20

    Default Re: Character over practice?

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    A song about going to high school, and then going to college, and then not buying that motor cycle, and ... I mean in reality nobody is interested in my experiences or my emotions.
    They might have been interested though, if you had bought that motorcycle. You know... that Vincent Black Lightning you had your eye on.

  37. #21

    Default Re: Character over practice?

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    The last thing I want to express when I play music, is my emotions or my experiences ... I mean in reality nobody is interested in my experiences or my emotions. The song, the tune, that is what folks want.
    This is really getting to the heart of one issue. For this is, after all, what effective art is - the conveying of meaningful content. If the player/performer doesn't feel their music contains meaning/relevance/emotion, no doubt it will lack for the listener as well; before a listener will perceive something meaningful from a player, a player must first imbue meaning.

    What is music, if not emotion?

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  39. #22
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Character over practice?

    Quote Originally Posted by catmandu2 View Post
    This is really getting to the heart of one issue. For this is, after all, what effective art is - the conveying of meaningful content. What is music, if not emotion? If the player/performer doesn't feel their music contains meaning/relevance/emotion, no doubt it will lack for the listener as well; before a listener will perceive something meaningful from a player, a player must first imbue meaning.
    It is the emotion, relevance, and meaning, of the piece of music that must be conveyed. The composer of the piece puts the meaning into it. If I am not playing original music, then what I feel or want to feel or want the audience to feel is not relevant.
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  40. #23

    Default Re: Character over practice?

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    ...If I am not playing original music, then what I feel or want to feel or want the audience to feel is not relevant.
    This seems to me way off the mark. Can not the playing (expression) of ANY music (medium) be original/authentic in some way?

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Character over practice?

    Quote Originally Posted by catmandu2 View Post
    This seems to me way off the mark. Can not the playing (expression) of ANY music (medium) be original/authentic in some way?
    Not necessarily, not in the way that it is authentic to the musician playing the piece. I might understand the emotions and experiences the piece contains, and I might use that understanding to better convey the piece, but at no point am I tying to convey my emotions, or my experiences.

    We are actors, and the music is our script. And unless we are composers or playwrights, the emotion of the piece is not (necessarily) ours. If it happens to be ours as well that's interesting, but not very relevant, and doesn't make for a better or worse performance.
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    Default Re: Character over practice?

    Quote Originally Posted by T-E-F View Post
    I've seen it suggested more than once that for a musician to progress quickest, it's more important to be a well-rounded person, than to narrowly focus on technique improvement...
    The only thing that will make most people better musicians is to love playing music. Doesn't matter how 'round' you are, if you don't love doing what it takes to get better, you won't, IMHO.

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