Strings - Just what goes into the making of a string?

[greenwdse]

Here's a question I can't seem to find an answer to, even on the internet. I've even written a few manufacturers but I don't get satisfactory answers. What exactly goes into the making of a mandolin (or guitar) string?

Where does the metal come from? What country? What is a manufacturer looking for in the metal? How is it graded? What form does it take when it enters their factories? And what exactly is the difference between one manufacturers strings, and another's if they are both the same weight and composition?

[Jim Garber]

This video doesn't answer all your questions, but I thought it was interesting to see the mechanization of the string-making process. No doubt you have seen this video.



I believe that Mapes Strings is one of the oldest makers of strings in the US. I believe that there are only a handful of US makers of fretted instrument strings and many other brands are made by these core makers for other labelled brands.

[greenwdse]

Thanks Jim. Much obliged. It's a good video. . but it raises even more questions. So they get this "core wire" that's hexagonal. Why hexagonal? Does that mean that all wires are like the core wire? And where do they get this core wire from? Are all core wires made equally?

[greenwdse]

Oh and by the way Jim. . . how's Westchester? I'm from Middletown, so I hope all is well back home!

[Willie Poole]

Great video....The DR string company claims that their strings are hand wound meaning the bronze wrap is held by hand instead of a machine when being wound, seems that a machine would have a more equal tension while doing this, if that has anything to do with the sound that will come from a plucked string I can`t say....

I am sure that doesn`t answer all of the OP`s questions but it may clear up some of what he asked...I do know that two different manufacture making a string of the same gauge and same materials will sound different from each other, why I can`t say...I guess that is why there isn`t just one string maker for us to use...I have tried something that some of you might want to try if you take the time...Take a D string from say D`Addario and one from say GHS that are both the exact same gauge and install them both on a mandolin. put one on the top slot and the other on the bottom slot and see if they note the same at all fret positions, they won`t, at least to my ears and tuner they don`t...

Willie

[Jim Garber]

I think we have to find all the facts from various sources and post them here.

Here is DR Strings take on round-wound vs. hex-core strings:

8. Tell me about round core versus hex core.
The difference between round cores and hex cores is significant. In a guitar string, round cores feel more flexible and have a fatter, more balanced tonal character. Hex cores are a bit stiffer and are brighter. In bass strings, the hex cores are a bit stiffer and are deeper in sound than round cores. A round core bass string is brighter, while still remaining more flexible. At DR while we use both types of core wire over a wide range of strings, we do manufacture more strings with round cores.

Here's juststrings.com take on the topic:

Core Wire

Wrapped steel strings are wound on a high carbon tinned steel core wire. Core wire can either be round or hexagonal.

Round Core Wire

Advocates of round core wire argue that the wrap is tighter and vibration is more even and true.

Hex Core Wire

The most common core shape is hexagonal although other shapes may be used. Stringmakers who use hex shaped core wire do so because the corners of the core wire dig into the outer wrap, resulting in a greatly improved mechanical bond. The end result is a longer lasting, more durable string. Shaped core wire can be ordered from the wire mill, but some stringmakers choose to shape it on their own equipment.

I believe that there are only a few companies that offer round core strings for mandolin. I believe that Newtone from the UK also makes strings with a round core. I see Curt Mangan makes (or sells) a round core string for guitar but not sure about mandolin.

Some time ago I did order some Newtones for my mandolins but I never tried them. Maybe it is a good time to do so and see if it really makes much of a difference.

[mandroid]

Going ...

Way back... to get lower frequencies metal was added to wet gut strings, grit embedded, and let dry..

adding mass, for Baroque Bass Viols and Cellos .. steel had not been created yet, back then.

[greenwdse]

So let's assume that all steel isn't made the same. . that a manufacturer would be looking for a certain type of steel. . with certain properties. . a good grade. Where would that steel come from? Would the manufacturer simply buy these wires and if so. . where would they come from?

[greenwdse]

And as Willie says. . .let's say you have two strings. . let's say both D's. .the same gauge. One's D'Addario and the other's GHS. What makes them different? What makes them different quality?

[JeffD]

I have in the past worked with many copper mines in the south west. One of the mining companies, owning many properties out there, also owns many rod mills and processing plants, where copper from the mine is turned into something useful.

The company told me that they made a whole lot of copper wire. Like probably a huge fraction of all the copper wire in the country.

The wire manufacturing was divided into two division. All that eventually would become electrical wire, electrical cable, and motor/generator windings - all that was, obviously enough "electrical wire".

The other division made the copper wire used for musical instruments, whether it was a mandolin string or a guitar string or a piano string or what ever. That was all called "mandolin wire", regardless where it was actually used in the music world. Yea, "mandolin wire".

None of the "mandolin wire" is sold directly as musical instrument strings - it all goes to musical instrument string manufacturers, to further process, cut, wind, ball end, flatten, apply coatings, whatever, and put into envelopes to sell to players like us.

I have no expertise at the other end of the industry, but I am guessing that most string manufacturers are in fact buying wire from the same several wire manufacturers. And while many wire manufacturers buy their raw metal from a variety of sources, (to make single metal wire, or wires of alloys of different metals,) it is also likely that more than a few wire makers are part of a larger company that also owns mining properties, within the US and overseas.

Its pretty fascinating.

Hope that helps.

[Ivan Kelsall]

If you look at this listing,it shows the world's major iron ore producers,with China way ahead :- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ore_production

Regardless of where the ore is sourced,the refiners will grade it,smelt it & add whichever other elements they need to produce specific grades of steel,some of which will be suitable for instrument strings.

The companies that produce the wire will work it to produce bars that can then be reduced in diameter by drawing through draw dies to produce the instrument wire. The same companies will most likely produce many other specifications of steel / copper / bronze etc. wire.

The instrument string manufacturers will buy the steel wire of their chosen specification & shape (round / hex.) & then work it to produce the plain strings = simple loop / ball ends & the wound strings with 'whichever' winding.
DR strings are produced by 'hand winding' the bronze etc. winding onto the steel core by 'hand operating' the machine.The winding wire isn't ''hand held'',it would take your fingers off in seconds.

Ultimately,that's all there is to it. I suppose that the differences in string 'tone',are down to core type (shape) the winding material ie Bronze / Silver plated / Monel / Nickel etc. & the fineness of the windings. The outer windings on the GHS A270's seems to be finer than the windings on EJ74's & they feel 'silkier' under my fingers. Also how any 'specific' mandolin reacts to a 'specific' string has to be taken into account. Most experienced musicians on here will know that not all strings suit all mandolins,so,most of us have tried & tested many brands / gauges etc. until we found our favourites,the ones that bring out the best in our mandolins,
Ivan

[greenwdse]

The other division made the copper wire used for musical instruments, whether it was a mandolin string or a guitar string or a piano string or what ever. That was all called "mandolin wire", regardless where it was actually used in the music world. Yea, "mandolin wire".

None of the "mandolin wire" is sold directly as musical instrument strings - it all goes to musical instrument string manufacturers, to further process, cut, wind, ball end, flatten, apply coatings, whatever, and put into envelopes to sell to players like us.

That is indeed. . . awesome. Jeff. . .Ivan. . thanks for this. It does answer a ton of questions. And thanks everyone for helping out here. Y'all are better than Google for information!

[Bertram Henze]

The process of steel from iron ore over raw iron, steel, alloys, casting and rolling is completely global. At every stage, the intermediate product may be shipped across oceans and going through the next step somewhere else. The source products are ore and scrap (electric furnace plants live on 100% scrap), which in turn may come from different continents. So, the steel string before you may contain ore mined in China, mixed with the rusty hull of a car from Bangladesh, molten in the West of India (alloys like aluminum and vanadium from other exotic regions added), cast in South Africa, rolled into thick wire in Minas Gerais, Brazil, and finally drawn into string wire in the US.
You'll never find out who owned that car from Bangladesh, but you can be sure the BOF operators ducked behind their protection walls when it was poured over with 1400 degrees raw iron...

[Jacob]

Two vendors of music wire - Mount Joy Wire Corporation & MAPES Piano String Co.

Mount Joy Options
Size range .002 - .125
Hard Draw Tru-Coat® Finish
Trucoat (Zinc Phosphate)
Bright Finish
Tinned
Tempered Tin / Tempered
Corrostan™ (Electro-Galvanized)
Annealed at Finish
Annealed in Process

MAPES Options
Phosphate coated music spring wire, size range = .282 -.006
Tin coated music spring wire size range = .062 -.006
Tin zinc coated music spring wire size range = 0.62 -.006
302-304 stainless steel size range = .162 – .060

[mandroid]

Genoa is now where you will find the scrapped Costa Concordia's Steel From that capsized and re-floated Cruise ship.

It cost more to salvage it than it did to build it..

[Willie Poole]

In response to the OP`s question it would be nice to know where the steel and other materials are made that make up mandolin strings, I know that I have used some stainless steel sheet metal screws that were made in China and when tightening them with a Phillips head screwdriver the slots crumbled on some of them, I guess that steel wasn`t near as good as steel made in the US...Maybe steel string cores are the same way...I don`t know myself but I have read where some people could not get the E strings on their mandolins to tighten up to the standard E note, could be the nut or bridge slots or could be inferior steel ...On the string packages it says "Made in the US", that's where the strings are put together but where is the steel made?

Willie

[Bertram Henze]

...I have used some stainless steel sheet metal screws that were made in China and when tightening them with a Phillips head screwdriver the slots crumbled on some of them

To be anti-corrosive is just one of the properties steel can be given by choosing alloys, the problem being that in most cases only combinations of two of them can be achieved, neglecting others. So if you want your steel
- anti-corrosive,
- elastic,
- hard,
- ductile,
- weldable
- ...
you have to choose. Stainless steel that's also hard is not easy to do. You can have stainless and ductile (as in a kitchen sink, for instance), but then you can't have hard (scratches everywhere on your sink).
Strings have to be elastic, but they can rust.

...but where is the steel made?

Everywhere, see my earlier post. Procedures differ vastly. E.g. from my experience on alloying and casting practice, don't buy strings made from EAF steel molten and cast at ESSAR Steel, Hashira, Gujarat, India. But good luck finding that out.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Bertram has it !. There's a fine line drawn between being 'hard enough' / 'too hard' & 'ductile'. I honestly can't say where the screws i use come from,i use 'em,not inspect them,but i've had steel screws with both slotted heads & Phillips / 'Posidrive' type heads that have shredded when i've used them - very often because i've used the 'wrong' screwdriver bit. All 'driver bits need to be the correct size,or,they'll slip & rip the screw heads off.

In stainless steels,there are a great many specifications as Bertram implies. Some of it can be hellishly hard & some of it very soft. The manufacturers of any steel items need to select the appropriate spec. for their product,
Ivan

[fatt-dad]

Hi, Engineer here!

I know nothing about string manufacture. I just want to make a few comments.

There is a material property called tensile strength and another property called elastic modulus. You can determine such properties for concrete, plastic, metal, rock, etc. They are just material properties.

If I take a column of material (squatty string) and apply a stretching load (tension), there will be some necking and some elongation. This, "Elastic" response is governed by the, "Young's Modulus," a material property. How metals (and other materials) are made and their composition affect the modulus. Copper, bronze, nickel, Monel, etc. have different modulus values. Mix these metals and you'll get intermediate modulus values.

A core wire gets stretched. The wrapping also gets a tensile load, but the core wire is in the way of it uncoiling. Such countering forces, prevent the core from necking when under tension. It'll elongate, but the wire behaves as a, "composite" where the combined properties exceed the individual properties.

Take a given string with all these varying properties and diameters and you will ultimately find some tension and some free length that will make your chosen note. When you string an instrument, the scale length and the prescribed notes are a boundary condition related to the engineering design. You want a low E, you have a scale length of 14" and you want some serviceable tension for the wooden structure and playability. Voilla! They have such determinations if you want low string pressure (i.e., light gauge) or more string pressure (medium gauge). The latter gives more volume.

I suspect that the composite effect of the hex core v. round core is a factor. I don't really know whether it's stability, longevity or what! I just appreciate it as a factor.

I've head before that there are only 3 string manufacturers. I suspect these folks make strings to spec. So, Martin or Gibson or etc. may just say, here's the metal spec, here's the core spec. here's the gauge spec, etc. The company makes them to spec.

Then again, I'm just typing on the internet. Just a few random thoughts from an engineer. . .

f-d

[Ivan Kelsall]

From fatt-dad - "..prevent the core from necking when under tension..". No core wire will 'neck' under tension unless the tension excedes the tensile strength of the steel wire - then it's on it's way to breaking with no turning back !.

Regarding Gibson etc. 'specifying' their requirements. Wire will be manufactured to many specifications,& the string makers will choose from those. I doubt that Gibson or any other string making company employs a metallurgist,they'll rely on the guys that the wire drawing comanies have to employ. I'm pretty sure that the string companies will know the ultimate tensile strength of the wires that they need in order to be tuned (tensioned) to the appropriate notes,so wires reaching those standards will be chosen.

It's not much different to us as consumers,if we know & understand what we really need,we can usually find a few 'whatevers' to choose from,
Ivan

[fatt-dad]

okay then. . .

f-d

[Ivan Kelsall]

Hi f-d - I wasn't trying to be a 'know all' here - my main point was that if a string does begin to 'neck' it's a one way road - i should have been my specific. As for how the string makers choose their particular wire,i was simply going by what most manufacturing comanies do - choose something that's already there that will do the job. Having 'custom made' anythings is as you'd expect ,massively expensive,especially as companies will usually only make a ' minimum batch quantity' (MBQ)- that's the amount that they need to make & sell to cover the cost of setting up the plant to produce it & break even,then they put their profit on top of that. In the case of producing a 'specific' steel for instrument wire,i'd expect an MBQ to be in tons = lots & lots & lots ....... of wire.

I expect that these days,wire for instrument strings is made to fairly 'common' specs. & that the quantity of wire produced is spread around many string making companies to spread the cost,
Ivan

[fatt-dad]

pl/ae and conservation of mass is all I'm going on. That and a few decades working in and with material labs.

The elastic elongation of materials occurs in the elastic range of materials. Plastic deformation certainly does occur as you approach failure. My use of the word, "Necking" is only to imply that some change in diameter must accompany stretching to pitch.

I don't want to be read as an expert on this topic. Just sheading a few thoughts on the matter.

f-d

[Denny Gies]

There's a nice article in the new Bluegrass Unlimited on the Black Diamond String company in Sarasota, FL.