Has anyone had experience building a mandolin with on of these. Why are they so disliked?
Has anyone had experience building a mandolin with on of these. Why are they so disliked?
Never mind, I can't get the link to work.
John Hamlett
www.hamlettinstruments.com
Have you played one?
They are not universally disliked. Just like anything else, some folks like them, some don't and most have no opinion or experience with them. I have a Virzi in my Paul Duff H-5 mandola and I like it quite a lot. A friend has one in his 1924 F-4 mandolin which he loves and I think sounds fabulous. Different strokes as is said.
Len B.
Clearwater, FL
Stick a 15 ounce piece of clay to the top of your soundboard and see if you like the sound better or worse.
Isabel Mandolins
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arche...50923841658006
https://youtu.be/MFitCkvRTvY
That mandolin has a virzi in it. It's a Rozawood Om-2. I love it. I've not heard an octave mandolin I like better yet, flat top, archtop, non virzi or otherwise.
It still cuts through on melody with up to 8-9 other instruments. Of course, after that it gets lost... but I don't like bigger sessions anyway.
The virzi gives it this real sweet round tone especially higher up the neck.
Asheville Celtic Mandolin Blog and Tablature Resource.
www.AshevilleMandolin.com
The Asheville Celtic Mandolin Collection: Standard Notation, Tablature and Chords for the Celtic Mandolin https://a.co/d/2KaJwBq "] - Tablature, Standard Notation & Chords to 50 Celtic/Irish Tunes.
Hurdy Gurdy Music - https://youtube.com/@TheHurdyGurdyWi...nCX2BHJY7jCVM4
The Mud Larks - Hurdy Gurdy and Nyckelharpa - https://the-mudlarks.com/
Wow, a very uninformed and flippant statement. The Loar era Virzi on my bench weighs 0.5 ounces. In my experience a mandolin with a Virzi can sound really great. YMMV.Stick a 15 ounce piece of clay to the top of your soundboard and see if you like the sound better or worse.
Gail Hester
Asheville Celtic Mandolin Blog and Tablature Resource.
www.AshevilleMandolin.com
The Asheville Celtic Mandolin Collection: Standard Notation, Tablature and Chords for the Celtic Mandolin https://a.co/d/2KaJwBq "] - Tablature, Standard Notation & Chords to 50 Celtic/Irish Tunes.
Hurdy Gurdy Music - https://youtube.com/@TheHurdyGurdyWi...nCX2BHJY7jCVM4
The Mud Larks - Hurdy Gurdy and Nyckelharpa - https://the-mudlarks.com/
And I've sent myself to the corner(my corner) for statements like that.
There are people that have huge warm feelings for them and others with "less positive" feelings.
I've never played anything with one but, gee, if you look back at the Virzi promotional literature, there is a reasonable argument. But, I'm claiming the "Schultz Theorem" here, "I know NOTHING!"
Headed to my corner in preemptive shame.
Timothy F. Lewis
"If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett
Well, first it's not going to make a good mandolin sound bad or a bad mandolin sound good. I believe they add a little compression to the top which evens out the strings a bit. Second, I hear a bit of a chorus effect once they get vibrating.From your perspective Gail, what does it do for the instrument?
A few years ago I had just finished an F5 with a Virzi. I took it to a show and after the show and asked the headliner, a very well known player (who is well known to dislike Virzis) to play it. I was told beforehand that if he didn't like it he would hand it right back. He played it for about 20 minutes and finally said that he loved it. I told him it had a Virzi and he said that he hated Virzis. I said I know and we both laughed.
The problem with Virzis is that if a mandolin has one you wonder what it would sound like without it and if it doesn't have one you wonder what it would sound like with one. My conclusion is that a particular mandolin is what it is, good or bad, and having a Virzi installed does not change that one way or the other.
Gail Hester
Asheville Celtic Mandolin Blog and Tablature Resource.
www.AshevilleMandolin.com
The Asheville Celtic Mandolin Collection: Standard Notation, Tablature and Chords for the Celtic Mandolin https://a.co/d/2KaJwBq "] - Tablature, Standard Notation & Chords to 50 Celtic/Irish Tunes.
Hurdy Gurdy Music - https://youtube.com/@TheHurdyGurdyWi...nCX2BHJY7jCVM4
The Mud Larks - Hurdy Gurdy and Nyckelharpa - https://the-mudlarks.com/
So Gail,
The answer is once again "It all depends" isn't it.
Cool story!
Timothy F. Lewis
"If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett
Could be, I meant no disrespect to Wes, great builder but we should treat the OP respectfully as well.Without opinion on the flippancy of the statement, I feel certain that he meant to say 15 gram...
Gail Hester
Yes sorry I meant grams.
There's certainly disagreements on many things in building. I don't intend to disregard the OP's question, but suggesting quite seriously that a virzi is nothing more than adding a weight to the top. Notice I didn't say it harmed the sound or made it better. Just, perhaps.. Different.
Yes believe it or not I have attached clay pieces to the tops and backs of my mandos to see how extra weight changes tone. Get enough weight, and in the right places, and it does affect tone.
A 15 gram weight at the center has more affect on tone than if it were placed outside the center. And I believe a virzi accomplishes this.
Isabel Mandolins
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arche...50923841658006
Has anyone played identical or close to identical instruments with and without one for comparison?
Dave Cohen has played and done holography on the same mandolin with and without a virzi. His conclusion was; it didn't make much difference. He said the sound was about the same, relying on human memory of course, and the top "side to side rocking mode" was a slightly lower pitch, possibly because of having to swing the added mass of the thing back and forth. That's about the most reliable scientific info we have.
John Hamlett
www.hamlettinstruments.com
Here you go. A guy named Chris Thile ('whoever he is') playing a Virzi & then a non-Virzi Lloyd Loar mandolin,
Ivan
My question would be - ''If you could play as good as CT,would you really give a toot ??"
That Virzi Loar sounded good to my ears,as did the non-Virzi,& for me,not much difference,although the room acoustics were pretty dreadful & added too much to the
overall 'sound'.
As to the OP's question - they're not so much 'disliked' as not preferred for some music styles ie. Bluegrass. Although if somebody gave me a Gibson mandolin with a Virzi in it,with my personal penchant for leaving instruments as 'constructed',i'd leave it in.
Weber F-5 'Fern'.
Lebeda F-5 "Special".
Stelling Bellflower BANJO
Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.
Go to Mike Black mandolins on the net. He has a video comparison of two of his A ovals, one with and one without. The sound capture is fairly good. Subtle differences between two very good mandolins.
Mike Snyder
1924 Gibson A Snakehead
2005 National RM-1
2007 Hester A5
2009 Passernig A5
2015 Black A2-z
2010 Black GBOM
2017 Poe Scout
2014 Smart F-Style Mandola
2018 Vessel TM5
2019 Hogan F5
Yes, subtle differences, possibly simply due to being different instruments. No two instruments ever sound exactly alike, even if they are the same make and model. That being said, however, if the main difference is the Virzi, to my ears the one with sounds a bit mellower, with a more rounded tone, while the one without has a bit more attack, more high end, and a quicker decay. Again, to my ears, very subtle but noticeable. I found myself preferring the Virzi tone.
Don
2016 Weber Custom Bitterroot F
2011 Weber Bitterroot A
1974 Martin Style A
Purr more, hiss less. Barn Cat Mandolins Photo Album
I don't understand how the mount is attached across the clef shaped openings on the disk. Does the design purposely use this to dampen some of the flexibility put in by the clef cutouts? Is it glued in the center or free to move with enough clearance to prevent contact with the mount there? Has anyone come up with a more modern lite weight design with a single center mounting pylon?
I can hear the difference better with my headphones on Mikes demo but usually these kind of acoustic qualities are best experienced personally. As Tony describes in the Virzi Vortex the effect isn't desirable when your looking for more power and a faster response. The cutting power to be heard in a band that all Bluegrass players require is often lost to some degree with the added mass and complexity.
"A sudden clash of thunder, the mind doors burst open, and lo, there sits old man Buddha-nature in all his homeliness."
CHAO-PIEN
I have never seen a Virzi that I liked, I have stated that on here before, but I am a bluegrasser....Seems that adding a little more wood to the tone bars would be the same but maybe not, there might be some other things to consider that myself and many others do not know about...I just play what I think sounds good to me ears...C.T could make anything sound good...
Willie
That really could be at the heart of the matter. I'm most definately not a bluegrasser and I do like Virzis. Mandolins are really versatile instruments, making their home in many different genres. Often when our opinions on a particular instrument, pick, strings or whatever differ, it may simply be the matter of the application in which we use our instruments. These applications vary greatly, and therefore our preferences vary greatly.
Once again, great community we have here. Lots of different viewpoints represented. Part of why I like the Cafe and its many inhabitants so much.
Purr more, hiss less. Barn Cat Mandolins Photo Album
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