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Thread: Virzi tone produce

  1. #1

    Default Virzi tone produce

    Has anyone had experience building a mandolin with on of these. Why are they so disliked?

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    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    Never mind, I can't get the link to work.

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  4. #3

    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    Have you played one?

  5. #4

    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    Quote Originally Posted by Robismi View Post
    Why are they so disliked?

    They are not universally disliked. Just like anything else, some folks like them, some don't and most have no opinion or experience with them. I have a Virzi in my Paul Duff H-5 mandola and I like it quite a lot. A friend has one in his 1924 F-4 mandolin which he loves and I think sounds fabulous. Different strokes as is said.

    Len B.
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    Registered User fscotte's Avatar
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    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    Stick a 15 ounce piece of clay to the top of your soundboard and see if you like the sound better or worse.

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    Registered User Narayan Kersak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    https://youtu.be/MFitCkvRTvY

    That mandolin has a virzi in it. It's a Rozawood Om-2. I love it. I've not heard an octave mandolin I like better yet, flat top, archtop, non virzi or otherwise.

    It still cuts through on melody with up to 8-9 other instruments. Of course, after that it gets lost... but I don't like bigger sessions anyway.

    The virzi gives it this real sweet round tone especially higher up the neck.
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    Hester Mandolins Gail Hester's Avatar
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    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    Stick a 15 ounce piece of clay to the top of your soundboard and see if you like the sound better or worse.
    Wow, a very uninformed and flippant statement. The Loar era Virzi on my bench weighs 0.5 ounces. In my experience a mandolin with a Virzi can sound really great. YMMV.
    Gail Hester

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    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    Quote Originally Posted by Gail Hester View Post
    Wow, a very uninformed and flippant statement. The Loar era Virzi on my bench weighs 0.5 ounces. In my experience they can sound really great in a mandolin. YMMV.
    From your perspective Gail, what does it do for the instrument?
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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    And I've sent myself to the corner(my corner) for statements like that.
    There are people that have huge warm feelings for them and others with "less positive" feelings.
    I've never played anything with one but, gee, if you look back at the Virzi promotional literature, there is a reasonable argument. But, I'm claiming the "Schultz Theorem" here, "I know NOTHING!"
    Headed to my corner in preemptive shame.
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    Hester Mandolins Gail Hester's Avatar
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    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    From your perspective Gail, what does it do for the instrument?
    Well, first it's not going to make a good mandolin sound bad or a bad mandolin sound good. I believe they add a little compression to the top which evens out the strings a bit. Second, I hear a bit of a chorus effect once they get vibrating.

    A few years ago I had just finished an F5 with a Virzi. I took it to a show and after the show and asked the headliner, a very well known player (who is well known to dislike Virzis) to play it. I was told beforehand that if he didn't like it he would hand it right back. He played it for about 20 minutes and finally said that he loved it. I told him it had a Virzi and he said that he hated Virzis. I said I know and we both laughed.

    The problem with Virzis is that if a mandolin has one you wonder what it would sound like without it and if it doesn't have one you wonder what it would sound like with one. My conclusion is that a particular mandolin is what it is, good or bad, and having a Virzi installed does not change that one way or the other.
    Gail Hester

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    Registered User Narayan Kersak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    So it sounds a lot like aging... it doesn't necessarily make you any better or any worse (although it could), cause you are what you are either way???



    Quote Originally Posted by Gail Hester View Post
    Well, first it's not going to make a good mandolin sound bad or a bad mandolin sound good. I believe they add a little compression to the top which evens out the strings a bit. Second, I hear a bit of a chorus effect once they get vibrating.

    A few years ago I had just finished an F5 with a Virzi. I took it to a show and after the show and asked the headliner, a very well known player (who is well known to dislike Virzis) to play it. I was told beforehand that if he didn't like it he would hand it right back. He played it for about 20 minutes and finally said that he loved it. I told him it had a Virzi and he said that he hated Virzis. I said I know and we both laughed.

    The problem with Virzis is that if a mandolin has one you wonder what it would sound like without it and if it doesn't have one you wonder what it would sound like with one. My conclusion is that a particular mandolin is what it is, good or bad, and having a Virzi installed does not change that one way or the other.
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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    So Gail,
    The answer is once again "It all depends" isn't it.
    Cool story!
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    Registered User Matt Harris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    Quote Originally Posted by Gail Hester View Post
    Wow, a very uninformed and flippant statement. The Loar era Virzi on my bench weighs 0.5 ounces. In my experience a mandolin with a Virzi can sound really great. YMMV.
    Without opinion on the flippancy of the statement, I feel certain that he meant to say 15 gram...
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    Hester Mandolins Gail Hester's Avatar
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    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    Without opinion on the flippancy of the statement, I feel certain that he meant to say 15 gram...
    Could be, I meant no disrespect to Wes, great builder but we should treat the OP respectfully as well.
    Gail Hester

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    Registered User fscotte's Avatar
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    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    Yes sorry I meant grams.

    There's certainly disagreements on many things in building. I don't intend to disregard the OP's question, but suggesting quite seriously that a virzi is nothing more than adding a weight to the top. Notice I didn't say it harmed the sound or made it better. Just, perhaps.. Different.

    Yes believe it or not I have attached clay pieces to the tops and backs of my mandos to see how extra weight changes tone. Get enough weight, and in the right places, and it does affect tone.

    A 15 gram weight at the center has more affect on tone than if it were placed outside the center. And I believe a virzi accomplishes this.

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    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    Has anyone played identical or close to identical instruments with and without one for comparison?

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    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevin View Post
    Has anyone played identical or close to identical instruments with and without one for comparison?
    Dave Cohen has played and done holography on the same mandolin with and without a virzi. His conclusion was; it didn't make much difference. He said the sound was about the same, relying on human memory of course, and the top "side to side rocking mode" was a slightly lower pitch, possibly because of having to swing the added mass of the thing back and forth. That's about the most reliable scientific info we have.

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    Here you go. A guy named Chris Thile ('whoever he is') playing a Virzi & then a non-Virzi Lloyd Loar mandolin,
    Ivan


    My question would be - ''If you could play as good as CT,would you really give a toot ??"
    That Virzi Loar sounded good to my ears,as did the non-Virzi,& for me,not much difference,although the room acoustics were pretty dreadful & added too much to the
    overall 'sound'.

    As to the OP's question - they're not so much 'disliked' as not preferred for some music styles ie. Bluegrass. Although if somebody gave me a Gibson mandolin with a Virzi in it,with my personal penchant for leaving instruments as 'constructed',i'd leave it in.
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    Registered User Mike Snyder's Avatar
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    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    Go to Mike Black mandolins on the net. He has a video comparison of two of his A ovals, one with and one without. The sound capture is fairly good. Subtle differences between two very good mandolins.
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    My Florida is scooped pheffernan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevin View Post
    Has anyone played identical or close to identical instruments with and without one for comparison?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Snyder View Post
    Go to Mike Black mandolins on the net. He has a video comparison of two of his A ovals, one with and one without. The sound capture is fairly good. Subtle differences between two very good mandolins.
    Ah yes, the clip that launch'd a thousand tone producers:

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    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    Yes, subtle differences, possibly simply due to being different instruments. No two instruments ever sound exactly alike, even if they are the same make and model. That being said, however, if the main difference is the Virzi, to my ears the one with sounds a bit mellower, with a more rounded tone, while the one without has a bit more attack, more high end, and a quicker decay. Again, to my ears, very subtle but noticeable. I found myself preferring the Virzi tone.
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    Barn Cat Mandolins Bob Clark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    Quote Originally Posted by multidon View Post
    I found myself preferring the Virzi tone.
    Same here.
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    Henry Lawton hank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    I don't understand how the mount is attached across the clef shaped openings on the disk. Does the design purposely use this to dampen some of the flexibility put in by the clef cutouts? Is it glued in the center or free to move with enough clearance to prevent contact with the mount there? Has anyone come up with a more modern lite weight design with a single center mounting pylon?
    I can hear the difference better with my headphones on Mikes demo but usually these kind of acoustic qualities are best experienced personally. As Tony describes in the Virzi Vortex the effect isn't desirable when your looking for more power and a faster response. The cutting power to be heard in a band that all Bluegrass players require is often lost to some degree with the added mass and complexity.
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    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    I have never seen a Virzi that I liked, I have stated that on here before, but I am a bluegrasser....Seems that adding a little more wood to the tone bars would be the same but maybe not, there might be some other things to consider that myself and many others do not know about...I just play what I think sounds good to me ears...C.T could make anything sound good...

    Willie

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    Barn Cat Mandolins Bob Clark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Virzi tone produce

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Poole View Post
    I have never seen a Virzi that I liked, I have stated that on here before, but I am a bluegrasser
    That really could be at the heart of the matter. I'm most definately not a bluegrasser and I do like Virzis. Mandolins are really versatile instruments, making their home in many different genres. Often when our opinions on a particular instrument, pick, strings or whatever differ, it may simply be the matter of the application in which we use our instruments. These applications vary greatly, and therefore our preferences vary greatly.

    Once again, great community we have here. Lots of different viewpoints represented. Part of why I like the Cafe and its many inhabitants so much.
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