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Thread: Swapping out Gotoh tuners for Waverly on Ellis A

  1. #1
    Registered User TEvans's Avatar
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    Default Swapping out Gotoh tuners for Waverly on Ellis A

    Hey folks. I know there are a lot of threads concerning Waverly, and other tuners. What I have not been able to come across is a person who has done this exact switch, from Gotoh to Waverly tuners.

    I've got a tuner that is starting to get a little "gritty" feeling. On top of that, I'm noticing the bushings rearing up in the front when under string tension (see picture).

    I'll also attach the diagrams that I found for Waverly and Gotoh spacing. Measurements seem to check out - 23mm post spacing. 8.3mm bushing. The only thing I'm not certain on is the spacing of the mounting screw holes. No worries, as I do a bit of wood working and have no problem plugging up these holes and drilling new ones with a drill press and depth-specific bit.

    All this to say, I do not want to plug and drill new post holes. If it comes to this, I'll stick to the Gotoh's. BUT, if someone has made this switch specifically from Gotoh to Waverly and have any sort of wisdom, advice, or whatever, let me know how your experience was.

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    Austin, TX

    Ellis A5

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    Default Re: Swapping out Gotoh tuners for Waverly on Ellis A

    I suspect the problem may be the bushings comming up is throwing pressure on the tuner. I would consider removing the tuners and putting just enough CA glue in the hole that they had a snugger fit. I am not suggesting gluing them in just adding somthing for them to bite into.

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swapping out Gotoh tuners for Waverly on Ellis A

    I made the switch from Gibson Grover tuners to Waverly tuners. I can compare the Gotoh's to the Gibson Grover tuners I removed. They appear to have the same post spacing as the Grover tuners. The Waverly tuner posts dropped right in the Grover holes. The posts seem to be the same length. The Waverly tuner posts were slightly shorter but still worked well. Eye balling the Waverly bushing on the Gotoh post it fits with some room but I wouldn't call it excessive. The screw holes might not line up and you may have to drill some new holes. The Waverly mounting screws are larger (diameter) than the Gotoh screws I have here. They were much larger than the Grover screws. Make sure the tuner post holes are drilled just like they are in the Waverly install instructions. If all that fits you should do fine. My install was documented in this thread.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swapping out Gotoh tuners for Waverly on Ellis A

    One other thing, if you're going to use the Waverly bushings buy the Stewmac reamer for those bushings.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

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    Registered User TEvans's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swapping out Gotoh tuners for Waverly on Ellis A

    I'm wondering if I'll even need the reamer. From the measurements, the Gotoh's and Waverly's have the same size bushing requirements. At least, I think they do.
    Austin, TX

    Ellis A5

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swapping out Gotoh tuners for Waverly on Ellis A

    Go & visit Tom Ellis & let him have a look at the tuners for you,after all he built it & mine !. The Gotoh's on mine work like silk. They are smooth & accurate & i couldn't imagine any other tuners being any better,regardless of make / price. Your's might only need removing & re-fitting to get them to be perfect.

    Tom can fit a set of Waverley's for you if you want & he's got all the tools required to do a 100% first class job. I do know that Tom offers both Waverly & Gotoh tuners,so he's all set up,
    Ivan
    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
    Lebeda F-5 "Special".
    Stelling Bellflower BANJO
    Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
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  9. #7
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swapping out Gotoh tuners for Waverly on Ellis A

    Quote Originally Posted by TEvans View Post
    I'm wondering if I'll even need the reamer. From the measurements, the Gotoh's and Waverly's have the same size bushing requirements. At least, I think they do.
    That would be wonderful.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  10. #8
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swapping out Gotoh tuners for Waverly on Ellis A

    Mandolin making is not as precise as rocket science engineering .

    Done one at a time, into wood, the peg head hole spacing is still subject to human error.
    so because someone else had a drop in switch go well does not insure you will get the same results.
    (perhaps hire the job out to expertise?)


    If the Waverly tuners don't drop easily in the 8 holes, don't force them.

    they can be damaged* and at least 1 will bind.. (work worse than the cheaper ones)

    then you need to ream the hole that's off perfect...
    the Wav's precise machining is fussy on the peg hole accuracy down to nearest 0.1 inch..




    * I bought a Mix A5 ,used, prior owner jammed in Waverly tuners and damaged them, in forcing in the fit.

    I went down market a bit to a lower cost tuner set from Stew-Mac, worked fine with the slight peg hole spacing mismatch..


    writing about music
    is like dancing,
    about architecture

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    Registered User doc holiday's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swapping out Gotoh tuners for Waverly on Ellis A

    TE, Tom Ellis is a prince of a guy. It's definitely worth giving him a call....after all...you're so close.

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    Registered User Nathan Kellstadt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swapping out Gotoh tuners for Waverly on Ellis A

    I could be wrong, but if I remember my conversation with Tom correctly, one of the primary reasons for using the Gotohs is that they are a easy swap for Waverlys, and enough customers upgrade/retrofit their instruments to take this into consideration. Essentially, it should be a straight forward swap. That being said, I echo Doc's comments 100%. Tom's not only helpful, but a really pleasant guy to talk to in general.

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swapping out Gotoh tuners for Waverly on Ellis A

    Hi Nathan - That's pretty much what Tom Ellis told me when i enquired about the tuners on my own Ellis. Tom will usually fit Gotohs,but on some of his 'specials',he'll fit Waverleys.You can order a mandolin with one or the other on it,however,the Gotohs on mine work so smoothly,i wouldn't accept a free set of Waverlys for them - why change something that works perfectly ?,
    Ivan
    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
    Lebeda F-5 "Special".
    Stelling Bellflower BANJO
    Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
    Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.

  16. #12
    Registered User TEvans's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swapping out Gotoh tuners for Waverly on Ellis A

    Well, there ya have it. Many thanks to all of the wonderful folks at the Ellis operation. The finest folks, and they do some great work!

    Picked it up on Friday, and had gigs both Friday and Saturday night. Waverlys are working like a charm!

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    Austin, TX

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  18. #13
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swapping out Gotoh tuners for Waverly on Ellis A

    An exemplary 'example' of common sense !! - Well done & congrats on your new tuners - & i do like the Black buttons very much. I tried to get some Black ones for my Gotohs,but i can only buy the full tuner set,
    Ivan

    Maybe it was your initials 'TE' that swung it !!
    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
    Lebeda F-5 "Special".
    Stelling Bellflower BANJO
    Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
    Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.

  19. #14

    Default Re: Swapping out Gotoh tuners for Waverly on Ellis A

    TEvans, looks great. Glad you had the masters do the work.

    I recently made the trip to the Ellis shop for some work on my Ellis A5. My experience was the same as yours: the best folks you'd ever want to meet providing world class service on their amazing mandolins.
    2010 Heiden A5, 2020 Pomeroy oval A, 2013 Kentucky KM1000 F5, 2012 Girouard A Mandola w ff holes, 2001 Old Wave A oval octave
    http://HillbillyChamberMusic.bandcamp.com
    Videos: https://www.youtube.com/@hillbillychambermusic

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