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Thread: Live Mics for Mandolin

  1. #1

    Default Live Mics for Mandolin

    I currently use a sm57 just wondering what mic would be a real upgrade? I also play guitar so I want something that can capture the best tone with both of these instruments primarily mandolin. What are you currently using and why do you prefer it? I'm sure this has come up many times on here. I'm thinking either a Sennheiser e914, Shure SM81, or a Shure KSM137.

    Thanks for your time!

    God Bless!
    Last edited by Girouardfan; Jul-07-2017 at 7:47am.

  2. #2
    Registered User Toni Schula's Avatar
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    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    A small diaphragm condenser would be a quite versatile next step. Either cardiodid pattern or even better hyper-cardiodid for feedback rejection.
    That said there is a large range of options...

  3. #3
    Mandolin user MontanaMatt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    I've been using a KSM109 for live mic for a long time and love it. It's not made anymore, but they are out there.
    Very accurate, clear, tight cardiod, low self noise, durable.
    Great on guitar, mando, fiddle, even vocals with the wind screen.
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    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    This is a good upgrade; http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/ccm5
    Eoin



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  5. #5

    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    My band mate and I use an Audio-Technica Pro37, and an older Pro37R on mandolin, guitar, and banjo and love them. Can't really tell any difference between the two.

    They have just a touch of high-end rolloff compared other small condensers, which we've found really helpful in preventing feedback and keeping the banjo and mandolin being harsh in the PA.

  6. #6
    Mandolin User Andy Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    Girouardfan, what sort of improvements do you expect to gain from an upgrade?

    Different pickup/rejection pattern? Flatter frequency response? More output level? Do you like the way the SM57 sounds for you?

  7. #7
    Registered User Bruce Clausen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    Good questions, Andy. Another would be what sort of band are you playing in. A condenser will pick up far more stage sound and room sound than a dynamic, even with a narrow pattern. Needs a careful band set-up for isolation. A strong acoustic sound helps, of course.

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  9. #8

    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    Audio Technica AE5100:
    http://tinyurl.com/yaykkr4d

  10. #9
    poor excuse for anything Charlieshafer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    I've been using a bunch of these Avantones for over year now and get great results. Work well on all strings, and the pencil condenser is easily controllable. That said, it's a quiet listening room-type stage, where I can control monitor mixes and there's no noise coming from the audience. If you're in a louder situation, with less control over stage size, room noise, etc., my favorite mics are the clip-ons. DPA's are great, but expensive, and frankly, if it's that kind of noisy environment, the mic won't matter.

    Keep in mind that as others above have pointed out, band and venue type matter, and in fact, matter far more than the actual brand of microphone. There are lots of threads to search from here all discussing this. They all go on for a bit where everyone, like me, recommends their favorite mic, but in the end, it's venue type and band type that matter the most. So it's pencil condenser for quiet rooms where detail matters, clip-on for detail in noisier environment, an sm57 for best feedback rejection, (but you gotta get close) for the noisy rooms, and if it's really a loud bar scene, give up and get a semi-electric, like an Ovation or Godin.

  11. #10
    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    You'll certainly want a super-cardioid mic.

    I found a like-new used Sennsheiser e945 online (at reverb.com, maybe?), and it seems to be good for acoustic stringed instruments. Much more detail, volume, and focus than a 57.

    Only gigged with it once, so far, but it seems like a good mando mic.

  12. #11
    Registered User almeriastrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    You will gets of recommendations, because the simple fact is that there are a lot of different mics that can work very well for this. Which is best for you depends on a number of variables that only you can discover and know... one of the biggest variables is monitoring. If you use loud 'wedge' monitors, this will greatly limit the choices. If you use IEM's (in ear monitors) the options widen. The kind of stages, rooms and sound system you use also affects results, massively, as Charlie says....so, you will get a lot of opinions because people have different experiences.... it can pay to have two options: a 'bad room mic' and a 'nice venue mic'!

    For the former, something along the lines of a Beta57 is suggested. It does not have to be that specific mic, but something with a similar spec. You want maximum off-axis rejection and a very tight pickup pattern.

    For the latter, a nice condenser will deliver the best overall results. Popular mics with mandolin players include the Shure KSM137, SM81, SM94, SM137, Audio Technica PRO37 and AE5100, AKG Perception 170 and anything with a similar general specification. There are lot out there and most of them will do a good job if used correctly.

    In a really good venue, my personal preference is the AT AE5100. This is a larger diaphragm mic but in a very compact housing. It has an excellent transient response and picks up the whole body of the instrument beautifully. Very smooth sounding. Natural.

    In small, tight, reflective venues, however, it can prove problematic. Great on larger stages. In bad venues I'll switch to either a clip on ATM350 or one of my 'bad room' mics...
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  13. #12
    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Clausen View Post
    Good questions, Andy. Another would be what sort of band are you playing in. A condenser will pick up far more stage sound and room sound than a dynamic, even with a narrow pattern. Needs a careful band set-up for isolation. A strong acoustic sound helps, of course.
    Glad you said that. I've used condenser mics only rarely and didn't know that. I generally like dynamic mics more because they seem less fussy. But my mic experience is limited.

    So thanks!

  14. #13
    Registered User almeriastrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein View Post
    Glad you said that. I've used condenser mics only rarely and didn't know that. I generally like dynamic mics more because they seem less fussy. But my mic experience is limited.

    So thanks!
    Off-axis patterns vary a lot - especially at different frequency points. This is one reason why some mics might be easier to work with than others. If you have a very wide, or uneven pickup pattern, then you will get a lot of 'bleed' or 'spill' from other instruments, from monitors, or reflected mains (and possibly even audience noise). On the other hand, a really super-tight pattern can be tricky in itself, as it will be highly directional, and if you move even a few inches away from where it is 'aimed' you might experience a very acute drop-off in volume, or tonal changes as the 'focus' moves from say, lower F-hole to fingerboard... it is also a question of finding a compromise YOU can work with and feel comfortable with.

    On dynamic vs. condenser, one major difference is (typically) the voltage they put out. An SM57 puts out only 1.6mV compared to 15.8mV for *exactly the same sound pressure level* with an AE5100 - the AE5100 is a very 'hot' mic (as is the Blue Encore 300). Consequently, if you have the same input trim settings as for an SM57 you will a) blow the roof off and b) get feedback. If you compensate on the input trim, there will be no difference in that regard.

    The higher the sensitivity of the microphone, expressed as millivolts output referenced to a 1kHz signal at 94dB SPL or 1 Pascal (Pa), the less GAIN is required of the preamp stage of the mixer. So, if you have a rather insensitive condenser mic, for example, a Shure SM94 rated at 3.5mV/Pa, you will need to turn the input gain up quite a lot more than you would for a Rode M2, which is rated 6.3mV/Pa, and a heck of a lot more than you would for a Blue Encore 300 (12mV/Pa) or an Audio Technica AE5100 (15.8mV). This is one reason why condensers have a 'reputation' for being harder to work with - though in fact it is not necessarily true. Pickup pattern and the amount of gain required have far more direct effect on than simply dynamic vs. condenser. As always, there are trade-offs...
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    poor excuse for anything Charlieshafer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    Thanks for that Almeria. And that's why microphone recommendations are always tricky. About ll I'll say in regards to dynamic vs. condenser is that I prefer condensers for instruments, but are not wedded to them. There's a caveat here: I run sound in a fixed room, and have for over 20 years in the same place. I know exactly what to expect, and know what I can get away with. The condensers I use, and there are a few, are on the hotter side, for the most part, and also not quite as tight a pattern. This gives the musicians a little more flexibility on stage as they move around. The musicians also sound check really well, and remember their positions as it relates to volume. Some really experienced ones even tape the floor so they know where to stand when filling, comping, or soloing. Watch guys like Joe K. Walsh, and even the subtle movements are all purposeful in terms of not just stepping back, but turning away just slightly.

    Then you have guys on fiddle who will move in and out right on target, then seemingly forget what they're doing and wander off and talk to the bass player. Then you realize that what looks accidental is quite thought out, as they really pick up the volume of their playing when off mic.

    As soon as someone says they have an absolute favorite, I wonder if they've actually heard what they sound like in different venues and situations. Algeria mentioned that there are a ton of good mics out there, and that's true; mores now than ever join the past.

    I have no problem in saying that for those artists who are wedded to one mic, it's the placebo effect more than anything else.

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    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    My favorite mics for mixed instrument/vocal use are the Sennheiser e935 and Audix OM2. Both are dynamic mics so you don't have to worry about phantom power. The Sennheiser e935s are pretty hot mics, while the Audix OM2s are slightly less hot. Both mics are extremely sensitive, yet controllable related to background noise and separation, and both reproduce tone extremely well.

    We do have a small assortment of less expensive large diaphragm condenser mics. These do require phantom power. They are extremely sensitive and they do pick up any background noise, so their best setting is on a properly sound-protected stage or in a studio or studio-like environment. My favorite of these is the Audio-Technica AT4040. We also have some fairly nice older Octava MK319s. If our band is indoors on a proper stage, I like to use these in addition to the other mics for providing full stage coverage and depth.

    For most casual venues and for "more serious" recording in your living room I'd go with the Sennheiser and the Audix mics. They are controllable, sensitive and accurate, with no background noise issues. Keep it simple.

    When we record in the studio, we let our studio-owner/producer provide what he has. He has huge mic (and other equipment) investments and he knows that works best with his setup.
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    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by jessejsaunders View Post
    They have just a touch of high-end rolloff compared other small condensers, which we've found really helpful in preventing feedback.
    Wow... this is such a key point. I've found SDC's to be feedback nightmares but that's because I can't RTM or notch out issues. And I find the SM57 so sufferable for mandolin that I'm about to head to the workshop and try to EQ it (somehow) to bring some life out of it.

    With the greatest respect, the SM58 and SM57 should be retired but always highly regarded... but retired.
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    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Harris View Post
    With the greatest respect, the SM58 and SM57 should be retired but always highly regarded... but retired.
    Neither of those mic's were designed for instrument and are still great vocal mics. I still use a SM58 for vocals, even tho I have other mic's.
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  19. #18

    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    I just conducted some "very scientific" tests. I recorded my beautiful mandolin (MT2... of which I'm not worthy) with a 57 and a cheap SDC into my DAW.

    Then I played it back from the DAW into my mixer... a low-tier Alto with 3 band EQ. I should add that all the preamps in the chain are fairly transparent. I monitored with cheap ear buds, Sennheiser over the ear headphones (flat, monitor types) and then through my Bose L1 compact.

    Here's the quick verdict: the 57 needed a massive midrange cut to sound even usable. Now I know what's been bugging my about it. -15dB out of 2.5kHz. I honestly couldn't find much usable signal in that band.

    The SDC (a glorified doorstop of an MXL) produced a very usable signal. With no EQ it was bright but usable (although would be a feedback issue live). The midrange that I had to slice was now back in, totally usable in its own right.

    So yeah, both are usable but the SDC is really plug and play, maybe with a low pass if you've got feedback issues. The 57 needed some significant EQ to get a usable sound.

    Hey... take it all with a grain of salt. Your mileage may vary but at least it helped me figure out what was driving me nuts about the 57. If I could surgically EQ it I bet I could get a perfectly fine sound out of it.

    However, I think I might just buy a durable, stage-worthy SDC and be done with it. I don't trust this used MXL to be gig-worthy.
    Last edited by Brian Harris; Aug-06-2018 at 9:04am. Reason: Clarification
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  20. #19

    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    I know the O.P. didn't ask for it, but I would put my money towards a L. R. Baggs pickup system, before a mike. MHO

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    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by farmerjones View Post
    I know the O.P. didn't ask for it, but I would put my money towards a L. R. Baggs pickup system, before a mike. MHO
    I wouldn't. I like my mandolin to sound like a mandolin.

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    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    I use a K&K and my mandolin sounds very much like my mandolin when plugged in. I can still use a mic, or both.
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    Registered User Pete Martin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    I'm a big fan of the Shure KSM 137 and 141. Very high quality and you can find them used very reasonably priced.
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  25. #23

    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandoplumb View Post
    I wouldn't. I like my mandolin to sound like a mandolin.
    I wasn't talking a cheap piezo transducer.
    Unless I'm in the studio, I wouldn't use a mike.

    Here's a couple of fellas playing with pickups. They seem to sound ok.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVDhnVWcO8U

  26. #24
    Registered User almeriastrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by farmerjones View Post
    I know the O.P. didn't ask for it, but I would put my money towards a L. R. Baggs pickup system, before a mike. MHO
    Hopefully the OP has now found something (as the question was asked 2 years ago)

    However, I'd probably give up mandolin all together if I had to be heard via a Baggs transducer....and yes, it is a piezo system.
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    Default Re: Live Mics for Mandolin

    I've never heard a pick- up that sounds natural, I don't even like one of the mics that mount on the mandolin. Do you listen to a mandolin with your ear 2inches from the mandolin, try it some time and see if it still sounds the same.

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