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Thread: sound proof practice room in an apartment

  1. #1
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default sound proof practice room in an apartment

    Here is the scenario: third floor of a 10 story modern apartment building. Need to make one room sound proof enough to practice acoustic and electric instruments (guitar, mandolin) any time day or night without being a nuisance to neighbors.

    Anyone with experience making an apartment bedroom sound proof?

    Has anyone built a Whisper Room and do they work?

    Please let me know what you have done that works, or doesn't work.
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    Default Re: sound proof practice room in an apartment

    You can absolutely soundproof such a room completely, allowing you to loudly play even acoustic instruments in the dead of night without disturbing your neighbors, should you decide to invest the money in acoustically isolating an interior sub-room (including floor and ceiling) for practice.

    The less volume your playing creates in the room, the less sound there will be which requires mitigation. If you decide, for example, to limit your night practicing to electric instruments and headphones, then you might not have to invest any cash at all in a solution.

    So, how much money is budgeted for proposed noise mitigation in your scenario?
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    Playing a funky oval-hole scroll-body mandolin, several mandolins retuned to CGDA, three CGDA-tuned Flatiron mandolas, two Flatiron mandolas tuned as octave mandolins,and a six-course 25.5" scale CGDAEB-tuned Ovation Mandophone.

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    Default Re: sound proof practice room in an apartment

    Building an interior room with no attachments to the actual room for sound to travel will help, now insulate between the two and you should be able to make a fair amount of noise. Of course unless you own the apartment it may be costly, and not easy to take down when you leave. How large of room are you trying to sound proof? Insulating the inside of the room will help, so will hanging heavy blankets, like wool, and inch from the insulation so sound doesn't travel will also help.
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    Default Re: sound proof practice room in an apartment

    Has anyone built a Whisper Room and do they work?
    My brother is a professional saxophone, clarinet, and flute player.

    He's in your same apartment living situation. He uses a Whisper Room and practices at all hours of the day and night at full volume. He's been using it for years and has never had a single complaint about noise.

    You can barely hear him playing inside the Whisper Room even when you're standing in the same room.

    NFI
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    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: sound proof practice room in an apartment

    over 3 grand for a phone booth size?

    no TARDIS factor, either, just as small inside as the outside suggests..


    Drapes.. Tapestries, .. if you hang heavy fabric just a little ways in from the wall, that will absorb lots of sound..

    Mandolins mostly are all treble, so no booming bass signals to shake the building.


    They hung Tapestries from Castle walls to take the hard ring out of the stone walls.



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    Unfamous String Buster Beanzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: sound proof practice room in an apartment

    I've done a few rooms for studios in urban and suburban areas.
    The booths are ok but might better suited to an office or studio type situation; ie voiceover- or drum-booth etc.
    However the advantage of those booths is that you can install them, then move them later if you move house. Although the cost looks high they are fire rated and don't involve fixing to the structure of the building so could be your only option in some situations.

    Three main aims are normally targeted, stop noise leaving, stop noise entering and make the room sound good.
    In your situation it's mostly about stopping the sound leaving.

    In an apartment you first need to see what's allowable in your landlord or building regs.
    There are load-bearing issues and rules about fixing to the main structure, fire regs etc., which will need to be checked before you even begin designing. There are no points for going down the wrong path through ignorance so it's well worth spending time on the boring stuff first. You don't want to have to rip it all out or find your insurance invalidated, maybe even get booted out until it's sorted.
    So slow and steady is the best course initially. Once you know you're on firm ground with your plans then you can go at it hammer and tongs.

    General non specific-approach might be:
    One of the main things are isolating the floors first.
    It's usually a case of load bearing acoustic foam ribbon onto which slim joists can be glued, then acoustic fire retardent baffles between, another line of foam lines then capped off with a thick treated ply layer.
    The walls then get built onto the floor over outer frame position, again isolated from the floor.
    Wall thickness will be determined by the needed attenuation from surrounding rooms, but also if recording and internal treatment are needed you may want bass bins etc. However these are often better done disguised as furniture which can be repositioned as required.
    The ceiling is a bit like the floor in reverse, but mounting bolts also need to be isolated to prevent direct transmission to the surrounding rooms, and the whole thing is dressed either to be exactly like the surrounding rooms (plasterboard etc) or if further treatment is needed hessian surfaces backed by acoustic damping material. All needs to be fire retardent.
    Ventilation needs to be looked at. We like to use remote ventilation forced into the rooms through acoustic baffles with corresponding extraction conduits, but these are studios. However even in an apartment you may be up against issues with noise leakage from your system into surrounding apartments.

    Which direction to take will also be decided by aesthetic issues and the size of the space.

    Often the best solution and by far the cheapest can be to hire local practice rooms or join a music society or club which makes spaces available...... In one place used locally I've been told we could use the back room before.
    Here's a pic; Click image for larger version. 

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    Eoin



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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: sound proof practice room in an apartment

    That's right, its all about noise leaving. Its all about not letting the fact of close neighbors decide the practice schedule or methods.

    Getting a practice room is not off the table, and has some advantages in other ways, so it is being investigated.

    I was really intrigued by the room within a room concept, especially a portable room within a room, because apartment living is not a permanent situation. But the cost of things cannot be ignored.
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    Default Re: sound proof practice room in an apartment

    I practice electric (with the amp turned way down) when there is a noise concern and acoustic when there isn't. No complaints. My SO says it is infinitely better than when i played the saxophone...
    Craig Mandola
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    Unfamous String Buster Beanzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: sound proof practice room in an apartment

    I meant to add that the doors would have to be done, but often those have to be adapted anyway as the internal floor rises.

    I wonder does your apartment have any utility or storage spaces available in the basement. You could find it's really cheap when compared to rigging up your own space.
    Eoin



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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: sound proof practice room in an apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanzy View Post
    I wonder does your apartment have any utility or storage spaces available in the basement. You could find it's really cheap when compared to rigging up your own space.
    Now there is an idea!!
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    Loarcutus of MandoBorg DataNick's Avatar
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    Default Re: sound proof practice room in an apartment

    I don't envy your project Jeff, but best wishes/regards in its completion.

    I've been blessed to actually rent my own studio in a building on the second floor, where downstairs there is a bar.

    All the tenants are musical/studios and I have a two room office suite that accommodates lessons in the outer room, man-cave in the inner room.

    Off to pick right now in fact; dream come true!
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    Registered User Billy Packard's Avatar
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    Default Re: sound proof practice room in an apartment

    Where I live there is the 8am to 10pm general rule to be respectful while living normally. I'll play the mandolin or guitar, sometimes with accompaniment from the computer during that time period at a reduced volume level.

    I have been offered and have used the on-site laundromat for those after-hours that I'm burning the midnight oil. It's in a separate building so no one hears anything.

    Sadly, the tenant immediately above me has a vendetta going, telling outrageous lies and being vicious and conniving. A genuine mental case that can put on a seemingly genuine front while lying. This scenario is still unfolding & I won't be pushed around by a sociopath.

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    Default Re: sound proof practice room in an apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Packard View Post
    Where I live there is the 8am to 10pm general rule to be respectful while living normally. I'll play the mandolin or guitar, sometimes with accompaniment from the computer during that time period at a reduced volume level.

    I have been offered and have used the on-site laundromat for those after-hours that I'm burning the midnight oil. It's in a separate building so no one hears anything.

    Sadly, the tenant immediately above me has a vendetta going, telling outrageous lies and being vicious and conniving. A genuine mental case that can put on a seemingly genuine front while lying. This scenario is still unfolding & I won't be pushed around by a sociopath.
    I once had to deal with such a neighbor, but fortunately after the digital recording revolution. I started recording the interior of my apartment 24/7, and the recordings revealed my comings and goings, my cooking times and listening and viewing habits... but never the claimed noise. Since I listen to news radio, there was plenty of places to show the timestamps were accurate, and to show no noise when the neighbor claimed.

    That got the board off my back, and he ruined his own credibility.
    ----

    Playing a funky oval-hole scroll-body mandolin, several mandolins retuned to CGDA, three CGDA-tuned Flatiron mandolas, two Flatiron mandolas tuned as octave mandolins,and a six-course 25.5" scale CGDAEB-tuned Ovation Mandophone.

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    Default Re: sound proof practice room in an apartment

    If there's a guitar Center by you that gives lessons, it may have a row of Whisper Rooms. I just noticed the brand name from your post, but you can walk by during e.g. a drum lesson and gauge for yourself how effective/comfortable they are.

    Aside from that, there are levels of sound leak reduction, the first level would be rugs, blocking all doors/windows as best you can (solid wood door, weatherstripping, window covers with Owens Corning 703 fiberglas (OC 703 figures heavily in a lot of these threads, tho i think there are alternatives). That should cover unamped solidbody guitar. For acoustics at normal, un-bridge muted volume you're probably going to need a complete enclosure (raised floor, walls, all heavily insulated)

    Lots of threads here: https://www.reddit.com/r/audioengine...elevance&t=all
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    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: sound proof practice room in an apartment

    A few phacts from physics:
    sound from a source has three paths to go when it hits a wall:
    1 - reflection (does not disturb neighbors)
    2 - absorption (turns sound into heat, won't disturb neighbors)
    3 - transmission (goes through the wall, will disturb neighbors)
    Once created, the sound must end up somewhere, so decreasing one path will increase others.

    Structures like egg cartons etc will affect #1 only and do nothing for the neighbors.
    Rugs and other soft stuff will increase #2 and might thereby decrease overall volume, but also to your own ears.
    Isolation to decrease #3 must be total - any small leakage ruins the effect. So any room-within-a-room must be fairly airtight and, for instance, ventilated through silencer tubes to keep the player alive and well.

    If I couldn't practise acoustic instruments in my home, I'd drive the car to some lonely place and practise in the passenger seat (watching out for burglars and serial killers all the time).

    I have an electric tenor guitar with a Vox AC30 Amplug and earphones for travelling and practising in hotel rooms. I chose string tensions and scale length as close as possible to my OM, so the practising makes sense.
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    Registered User Billy Packard's Avatar
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    Default Re: sound proof practice room in an apartment

    Hey Explorer, that's a great idea, especially if I can produce one with a time stamp.

    Do you have any suggestions about a product for me to use, hopefully on the cheap side?

    Billy
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    Default Re: sound proof practice room in an apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Packard View Post
    Hey Explorer, that's a great idea, especially if I can produce one with a time stamp.

    Do you have any suggestions about a product for me to use, hopefully on the cheap side?

    Billy
    At the time, I had several Mitsubishi VHS recorders which could record long periods, so I was able to route two Radio Shack PZM mics into the sound inputs. Since I had plenty of long tapes on hand, I could set up the recorders' timers so the 8-hour tapes butted up against each other, and get a week's worth of recordings on 21 tapes. After two weeks, the board approached me with three more complaints, and I was able to show them my set-up, and to find the appropriate tapes covering the time periods.

    Fortunately, this was all stuff I had on hand.

    If I had to do it now, I'd be recording in Audacity, a free audio studio program, recording to a huge hard drive at half CD quality. I'd change the audio track being recorded every day, writing what time the change was made so I could easily find any given time on it.
    ----

    Playing a funky oval-hole scroll-body mandolin, several mandolins retuned to CGDA, three CGDA-tuned Flatiron mandolas, two Flatiron mandolas tuned as octave mandolins,and a six-course 25.5" scale CGDAEB-tuned Ovation Mandophone.

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    Unfamous String Buster Beanzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: sound proof practice room in an apartment

    How about just buying a 1TB harddrive & mic? If you sync your PC clock to a timecode server, you could just record the timecode. If you prefer video, then a webcam, point it at the clock radio or better the TV on mute? Can be verified by schedules too. But just sticking your smarthone clock down infront of the webcam when you put it on to charge will act as a reference source.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Registered User Billy Packard's Avatar
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    Default Re: sound proof practice room in an apartment

    I like the idea of a webcam and the PC clock w time/date hooked to a 1 or 2 TB. I'll have to engage my son to figure it out and set it up. I know convenience stores, banks, et al, have things like this.

    Thanks! And please add any other ideas or refinements.

    Billy
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    Registered User Nathan Kellstadt's Avatar
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    Default Re: sound proof practice room in an apartment

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Packard View Post
    I won't be pushed around by a sociopath.
    Words to live by.

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: sound proof practice room in an apartment

    Two goals:

    One is to not have to limit practice times or methods in any way

    Two is to not have neighbors know music is happening. Give them nothing to even listen for.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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