Which GDAE instrument for chord playing?

[mobi]

I [try to] play mandolin for melodies only. I tried to play chords with mandolin, usually to accompany vocalists but it didn't sound very well - I meant not as good as when someone strumming with a guitar. May be it has to do with mandolin is a higher frequency instrument compared to guitar?

I do fancy playing chords to accompany singers. Especially chords are easily available where as getting notations for melody for many songs is a bigger challenge.

In ideal world I would have used guitar for playing chords but playing guitar would be steep learning curve.

So, my question is, which instrument is good for playing chords and tuned in GDAE - so that I can transfer my mandolin fingering very easily.

Is Octave Mandolin a good candidate?

Or my thinking logic is wrong and it is better to strum using a real guitar?

Or just be cheeky/lazy and strum chords digitally using an iPad/Android tablet? (in that case please state which app to use)

[derbex]

I am getting into using my OM and tenor guitar (CGDA) for this.

You may not transfer your mandolin fingering all that easily, the notes are on the same frets but further apart, so you may want different chords to the ones you use on the mandolin.

[JeffD]

I have a friend who purchased a nice baritone ukulele and restrung it for GDAE. He is having a lot of fun with it.

[Martin Jonas]

Tenor guitar set up for GDAE is my preferred option, but baritone uke restrung for GDAE as per Jeff's suggestion works fine as well.

Although the chord shapes are the same as for mandolin, the longer scale length means you need to pick shapes with less stretch. For example, the most common mandolin shape for F major is 5301, which is too much spread on tenor guitar so I use 5305 or x335 instead. The latter is a moveable chord shape which is very handy as it will work anywhere on the fretboard.

Martin

[Mandobart]

I personally prefer OM or mandocello for self accompaniment. Both are in the same frequency range as guitar. The notes and intervals (an octave lower) are in the same place as on mandolin, but the stretch is longer. There are many moveable chord shapes to use up and down the neck. I also like to use octave pairs on my OM and mandocello for the lower courses, similar to a 12 string guitar. I don't know what strumming chords digitally using an iPad/Android tablet is - do you mean canned tracks for accompaniment or just using an app to learn chords? The latter is fine. The former is basically karaoke.

[CES]

Another vote for OM, or for just learning guitar. Though OM and mandolin theoretically have the same notes/chord shapes, the longer stretch makes them two completely different instruments, IMO. While mandolin is my favorite instrument, guitar is much more versatile for us mere mortals, and not hard to learn. Savants like Thile can make a mandolin do anything they need. I'm still working towards that goal, realizing that i'll never get to that level. I head up our youth praise band at church, and play mando often in lead and supporting roles. But, if asked to accompany a singer without any other instruments, I'll almost always choose guitar or OM.

Google Thile doing "Too Many Notes," "Set Me Up With One of Your Friends," "Another New World," and "Don't think Twice" to see how to make mando work. Or pretty much anything by Mike Compton and Sam Bush. But, for mere mortals, it's tough...

[lenf12]

I [try to] play mandolin for melodies only. I tried to play chords with mandolin, usually to accompany vocalists but it didn't sound very well -

So, my question is, which instrument is good for playing chords and tuned in GDAE - so that I can transfer my mandolin fingering very easily.

All of your proposed options are good alternatives to playing chords on mandolin. Where I differ with you is that you have already built up a body (however small) of mandolin knowledge and because you don't think it sounds good right now, you want to throw it all out the window for a different instrument with which you have zero familiarity. You don't know whether you would be any happier with the alternatives. Let's not go back to the bottom of the learning curve and start over. Why not practice your rhythm mandolin playing? Mandolin is a perfectly good instrument for accompanying a vocalist. Sam Bush has has a video specifically about rhythm playing. Check him out.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Explorer]

I tried to play chords with mandolin, usually to accompany vocalists but it didn't sound very well - I meant not as good as when someone strumming with a guitar. May be it has to do with mandolin is a higher frequency instrument compared to guitar?

There's no doubt that the guitar hits some people's sweet spot regarding frequency range. However, a mandolin does go lower than a concert and soprano ukulele, and is as low as a tenor ukulele in low G tuning.

I do play with nails on mandolin when I want to cover ukulele and charango styles, and most seeing me playing in those styles assume I'm just playing a funny-looking variant of those instruments.

I do suggest learning as many low-voiced chords as possible, and exploring chords yourself rather than relying on books of chords and their voicings. As an example of differing results, many mandolin chord books and chards show A minor as either 5200, or as 2235. If one uses a tool like the chord builder at studybass.com (remembering to check the "show scale degree" option in the "Diagram" tab), one can see the lowest A minor voicing all around is 2230.

https://www.studybass.com/tools/chor...-note-printer/

The reason I suggest turning on the scale degrees option is you'll be able to intelligently choose a voicing wih the lowest possible root or fifth, which will also help the chord sound more stable and deeper. Start jotting down those alternate chords, and you'll have a different sound from those who just grab the traditional chop chords which rely on a guitar to fill the low end.

Good luck!

[Tobin]

I am getting into using my OM and tenor guitar (CGDA) for this.

I'll put in another vote for CGDA, rather than GDAE. There are a lot of "tenor" range instruments tuned to CGDA, and they are popular precisely because they exist in the perfect range for both melody work and chordal backup. Tenor guitars, mandolas, violas, and tenor banjos all use this same tuning.

And the good news is that if you already know how to play a fifths-tuned instrument like the mandolin, switching over to another fifths-tuned instrument is pretty easy. Your same chord shapes still work. They just get used for different keys a fifth lower. So your two-finger G chord on the mandolin becomes a two-finger C chord on a mandola or tenor guitar. Your A chord on the mandolin becomes a D chord on the tenor guitar. With a little practice going back and forth between instruments becomes very natural and the confusion goes away.

I like the sound of an octave mandolin as much as anybody else, but it's kind of a beast for playing chord backup. Personally, I think it's too low of a voice for that. Despite being down at the same bottom end as a standard guitar, it doesn't have the high end that a guitar has, so it's just too bassy of a chord sound for what I would consider a solid backup instrument. But the CGDA instruments are good middle-of-the-road choices.

[David L]

I like the sound of an octave mandolin as much as anybody else, but it's kind of a beast for playing chord backup. Personally, I think it's too low of a voice for that. Despite being down at the same bottom end as a standard guitar, it doesn't have the high end that a guitar has, so it's just too bassy of a chord sound for what I would consider a solid backup instrument. But the CGDA instruments are good middle-of-the-road choices.

The high E string of an Octave mandolin is the same note as the high E on guitar. Isn't the high end the same?

[Explorer]

I like the sound of an octave mandolin as much as anybody else, but it's kind of a beast for playing chord backup. Personally, I think it's too low of a voice for that. Despite being down at the same bottom end as a standard guitar, it doesn't have the high end that a guitar has, so it's just too bassy of a chord sound for what I would consider a solid backup instrument. But the CGDA instruments are good middle-of-the-road choices.

The high E string of an Octave mandolin is the same note as the high E on guitar. Isn't the high end the same?

Yup. The octave mandolin is just three half steps shy (E2, F2 and F#2) of having the same range as a guitar. A 5-course cittern tuned CGDAE has even more range than a guitar.

[PhilGox]

Hello,

Six mounth ago I have bought an electro-accoustic baritone uke and stringed it GDAE.
I'm still in the honey moon with it cause I really love the sound.

For accompaniment, you can go from "hard" chord strumming to delicate romantic arpegios.
Play with a pick or fingers, both sound good.
The strings are very light under fingers, so you can fret chords for hours without pain.

For tuning I would not hesitate with GDAE tuning.
Remember that in GDAE, a capo at the 5th fret gives you a CGDA tuning so you have a 2 in 1 instrument.
For accompaniment you won't often go past the 12th fret so there is no problem to shorten the neck with a capo.
I often do it on the GDAE uke and banjo and it's fine.

If you compare the prices between baritone uke and octave mandolin or tenor guitar, the uke is a good alternative.

A GDAE banjo can do the job very well too but the sound is more "typical".
Personaly I love both instruments for accompaniement.
When I want kind of "rock" energy I choose the banjo.
When I want kind of sweet romantic mood I choose the uke.
(It's only exemples )

Hope it will help your choice

[bratsche]

I have a friend who purchased a nice baritone ukulele and restrung it for GDAE. He is having a lot of fun with it.

I did this too, and find it is so addicting that, dare I say it, lest I be accused of anthropomorphization (is that a word?), my mandolas are getting jealous.

I find myself noodling and improvising chord - melodic sequences for hours on it, simply because the tone is so mesmerizing to me.

And now there's even this. Holy cow, do I need more temptation?

bratsche

[Tobin]

The high E string of an Octave mandolin is the same note as the high E on guitar. Isn't the high end the same?

You're right; it is. It seems sort of weird, though, that when I have played an OM, it just doesn't seem to have the same effect as chording on a guitar. Obviously, the guitar has more depth of chord sounds, since it has more strings (and thus more filler notes). Maybe it's just that I have played the guitar for so many years that the OM left me a bit disappointed in its ability to provide effective backup. The overall sensation I get when I play chords on an OM is a deep, booming voice. It's cool and unique in a certain way, and what I perceived as not having much top end is probably more just a lack of filler chord tones. At any rate, my temporary urge to buy an OM a couple of years ago quickly passed once I came to the realization that it just wasn't what I wanted out of a mandolin-family instrument. Its low register didn't offer anything that the guitar couldn't do, and my ability to play melodies on it was pretty sad. I personally found the mandola to be a better fit, having the ability to provide bassier chords than a standard mandolin, while also still being fairly easy to play melodies.

[Steve Ostrander]

I bought a tenor guitar and restrung it GDAE but to my ears it didn't have the fullness of my 6-string acoustic guitar, at least for the music I play. YMMV.

[jmkatcher]

I had a similar experience - OM just not working for that as well as guitar - and just ended up teaching myself guitar (which I learned initially as a superset of mandolin strung backwards ).

Mandola is much more interesting for that voice if you have a good mandola.

[belbein]

I donno. I first learned mandolin as a melodic instrument, then once I learned the fretboard, I started struggling to teach myself chords. Then when I bought a mandola because I do love that sound, I found that I was (am) just beating my head against a wall re learning chords for mandola. The similarity of chord forms is getting in my way. Going from one instrument to the other is killing me. Maybe it would be easier if I never played chords on the mandolin and never played melodically on the mandola?

[Tobin]

I donno. I first learned mandolin as a melodic instrument, then once I learned the fretboard, I started struggling to teach myself chords. Then when I bought a mandola because I do love that sound, I found that I was (am) just beating my head against a wall re learning chords for mandola. The similarity of chord forms is getting in my way. Going from one instrument to the other is killing me. Maybe it would be easier if I never played chords on the mandolin and never played melodically on the mandola?

I think your confusion is probably related to the fact that you're trying to memorize chord shapes by name. I have found it much easier, when going back and forth between mandolin and mandola, to just remember which chord shapes go with each other based on the Nashville numbering system. And not get hung up on what key you're playing in, or what chord name it is.

For example, you know the simple two-finger mandolin chord shapes for the key of G, right? G (0023), C (0230), and D (2002) will be your most common chords for a tune using the typical I-IV-V progression. You'll also occasionally use Am (2230), Em (0220), etc. Get used to playing enough songs or tunes that use these chords, and thinking of them in terms of where they are in the Nashville numbering system, that it becomes second-nature. You shouldn't be mentally thinking "I'm about to go to a C chord". It should just be "we're coming up on the IV chord", and you're familiar enough with the chord shapes to know which one that is.

If you approach it this way for the most common keys for folk music (usually C, D, G, and A), you really only have to memorize a few patterns of chords that go with each other. And those chord shapes always work with each other, regardless of which instrument you're playing. You just need to know which chord you're starting on (i.e. which one is your root or home base chord for any particular tune), and go from there.

It really does get easier over time, as you switch back and forth. Being familiar with how the chord shapes interact with each other makes it less stressfull to mentally translate their names. It's the names that are causing the confusion. It's easier just to think in terms of patterns and interactions.

[mobi]

Never played Octave Mandolin myself. But looking at YouTube videos, sound looks similar to guitar's (especially those OMs which look like mini guitar)

[CES]

I really liked my Weber Hyalite OM for rhythm, but struggled with the reach playing melodies. Made my pinky better for guitar and mando, though, for sure! I eventually traded the OM for a mandolin, which I like, but I miss the "deeper but different than guitar" voicing. It's no big deal at home, but in our praise band we usually have at least 2 other guitars, and the OM offered some variety to the wall of sound. I was considering getting a shorter scale OM vs trying mandola. I think I could pick up the mandola relatively easily (I've resisted because of that issue, but recently picked up a tenor uke and have caught on pretty quickly). That said, the recent posting of baritone ukes tuned gdae or cgda are very intriguing...

[farmerjones]

Off topic or not, I leave my guitar tuned to open G like my banjer. So I have a chord arpeggio (banjer roll), or a nice booming guitar chord. Mandolin & fiddle tuned EAGD, Guitar & banjer tuned open G. It's not that hard for the brain. If the brain can play 785 different melodies on an EAGD instrument, you're selling it short to think it's too hard to play 4 or 5 instruments all tuned differently.

PS - Scrumptious chords can be produced on a piano. 1-3-5 in both hands and jab to the beat.

[CES]

You really just have to approach each instrument as a different instrument and, for me, compartmentalize that way. If I try to think about mandolins as an "upside down guitar" or remember that a G chord on a Uke (gcea tuned) is like a D chord on guitar, it fouls me up pretty quickly. Not everyone's brain works like mine, though and those kinds of associations are helpful for some people, just not me. That doesn't mean I don't transfer techniques from instrument to instrument or make some fretboard relationship realizations, but I learn more quickly if I start fresh with each new instrument. Up to 6 now, not including sax (which I sold to buy my banjo years ago, though with a little embrasure work I could pick it back up easily, as it's got that childhood ingrainment). Do I really need another instrument to AS over? And, if so, shouldn't it just be a mandocello???