Cases

[Dr H]

Question for all the builders out there.

I am old enough to remember when, once upon a time, anyone who sold you an instrument worth more than a couple hundred bucks would include a hardshell case with the purchase. Over the years this practice seems to have dwindled to the point where I've seen people walking out of music stores with a $1000 Taylor guitar clutched naked under their arm.
After a couple of unfortunate mishaps, I decided several years ago that I would henceforth never buy another instrument over $200 for which I could not also obtain at least a basic vinyl-covered plywood, padded, hardshell case. These days that most often means making a separate purchase in the neighborhood of $100-$200. Not that much, really, but when you have a houseful of instruments, it does start to add up.

Matters are complicated by my interest in oddball instruments, often from other cultures, for which there may not actually be any commercially-made cases. Also, even for pretty standard-shaped guitars, mandolins, and banjos, there seems to have been a decided trend towards "gig bags" rather than real cases. In my experience a gig bag is useful for keeping the dust off an instrument that mostly lives in your living room, but if you're going to a gig and someone kicks it over, or tosses it in a trunk, it's really not going to protect very much.

This leads me to my question, or rather, questions:

*When you build instruments, do you also build cases for them?

*Or do you mostly rely on generic pre-made cases?

*What if you build an instrument in a non-standard shape or size?

I know there are (or used to be) a few places that made custom cases to order, but for less expensive instruments one could easily end up paying more for the case than for the instrument.

*So I guess what I'm really asking is, how hard is it to make a decent DIY case?

*Are there any sources that offer plans or tips for doing this?

By "decent", I mean the sort described above: basically a solid plywood case in roughly the instrument's shape, padded with foam and fake fur, and covered in black vinyl. -- Not just some 80-pound coffin-box made from old palates and orange crates (I've done that already...)

I'm not a luthier, by any means, but I am reasonably skilled at general home-grown woodworking, and have a good set of power tools. Could I construct a suitable case for my viola da Terceira for, say, $100 or less -- or am I better off finding a professional to do it, and spending the extra $$$ ?

Maybe dumb questions, I know... but I've always gotten a plethora of good advice from this forum, so, what the hey?

[Mandoplumb]

Dr.H I'm glad to see someone that agrees with me. I remember when you bought a gig bag if you had no case, and little money. It wasn't a case but it offered some ( read little) protection. Now I see gig bags priced higher than a lot of cases and these ultra lite glorified gig bags with expensive mandolins in them. I've said it before, when I get to where I can't carry a mandolin in a real case I'll stop playing out, just set at home and pick by my self.

[peter.coombe]

*When you build instruments, do you also build cases for them?

No

*Or do you mostly rely on generic pre-made cases?

For the cheaper mandolins such as my flattop, I do use generic cases. For the high end mandolins I use custom made cases from Presto or Cedar Creek. Any non standard instruments which don't have pre made cases that fit (e.g. Tenor Guitar) I also use a custom made case. Custom made cases are expensive, but provide much better protection. I have used all sorts of generic cases, mostly made in China, but they do have QC and reliability problems. One case might fit perfectly, the next is either too big or won't fit at all because it is too small. I have found generic cases that fit, but then later down the track they become unobtainable so are a PITA.

How hard it is to make a case, I don't know, I would much rather make mandolins and present my work in a case that will properly protects the instrument and likely to last a lifetime. Some customers want a flight case and that pretty much mandates a custom made case (in my case a Presto).

[LadysSolo]

For my bowlbacks they all live in gig bags at home, and I bought a hard-shell case (don't actually know what it is made of) from Elderly Instruments (NFI) for when I take any out of the house (obviously it fits any of them.) All of my other instruments have cases.

[Timbofood]

If you want to build a case, build a case. Many instrument builders build to designs which fit existing cases, some of the unusual instrument designs do require custom cases. I'be seen some home built cases that while structurally just fine, they have weighed a ton! Just remember when buying a custom case you will pay for all the previous failures and the learning curve the same way as prime instruments. Excellence does not come cheap, nor should it!

[AlanN]

I'll deviate a bit from the specific questions asked and speak to the first part of the OP's post.

When I purchased my first vintage instrument (a Gibson A-40 from Mandolin Bros, summer of 1978, which I still have), it did not 'come with a case'. I had to purchase one separately, which I did at the same time. I knew enough to not not buy one, as walking out of the store 'naked' just didn't seem prudent.

[jim simpson]

I made a rectangular case once for an octave mandolin. Like Peter said, it ended up being pretty heavy. It did protect it and the person who ended up with it seemed to appreciate that the instrument had a case. I can't imagine how hard it would be to make a shaped case. One solution for unusual shaped stringed instrument is to get an oversize case and refit the inside with foam cut to the shape of the instrument. I picked up a case that was made for a violin and a mandolin. I was able to convert it to a double mandolin case. I used a semi rigid foam plus spray contact cement and was pretty please with the outcome.

[Charles E.]

(quote) By "decent", I mean the sort described above: basically a solid plywood case in roughly the instrument's shape, padded with foam and fake fur, and covered in black vinyl. -- Not just some 80-pound coffin-box made from old palates and orange crates (I've done that already...)

To build a case as you describe would take some expensive tools and production. It is beyond what most luthiers want to deal with.

Years ago I had a couple of custom guitar cases made by Harptone. When I wanted another the owner said "I am sorry, but the old gentleman that made our custom cases retired, so we no longer offer that service."

[Frank Ford]

Question for all the builders out there.

I am old enough to remember when, once upon a time, anyone who sold you an instrument worth more than a couple hundred bucks would include a hardshell case with the purchase.
--------------------------------------------

I know there are (or used to be) a few places that made custom cases to order, but for less expensive instruments one could easily end up paying more for the case than for the instrument.

*So I guess what I'm really asking is, how hard is it to make a decent DIY case?


By "decent", I mean the sort described above: basically a solid plywood case in roughly the instrument's shape, padded with foam and fake fur, and covered in black vinyl. -- Not just some 80-pound coffin-box made from old palates and orange crates (I've done that already...

First, I must take issue with the bit about cases being included "back in the day." Martin, for example, did not include cases until 1971 when they went to direct factory distribution. Until then, the instruments went to jobbers by rail six to a box and were sold to dealers without cases. Dealers often sold them without cases, or with cardboard ones.

Indeed, hardshell cases were generally available for most manufactured instruments, but sometimes at a pretty high prices.

As to making a conventional hardshell case, it IS a big project with lots of difficulties to overcome - think about how you might form the contoured laminated sides or arched top and back. Just covering the thing can be problematic, I can tell you for sure. Over the years I've known a few folks who made their own vintage style cases. NONE of them ever wanted to do it again!!

Harptone was the last U.S. outfit willing to custom make contoured hard cases to fit odd instruments. They got creative by cutting and pasting the parts of various shaped shells together and padding them to fit well. We'd have them take a Martin size 0 case, and cut it narrower to fit a 2 or 2-1/2 for example. I had a custom case made for my 9" head Lady Stewart banjo, and it cost hardly more than a standard size.

Harptone went out of business because they couldn't keep costs down to the insane low levels of the imported stuff that soon became available.

[MontanaMatt]

My Dad is original owner of a sweet '53 Martin HD28. He bought a "walk over" case to protect his new fancy guitar. He tells the story that on the first day of ownership, he's walking around the house picking, tells he is grandpa about the protective case that cost a lot extra...he steps on the case and put is foot through it...with the guitar around his neck!
I have a Northfield Airloom and a Gary Price Case housing my mandolins. They help me stay relaxed when things are bouncing around on the road. I'd never step on either, but the Price Case is quite stout, and heavy.

[almeriastrings]

That will be a D-28. The HD-28 was not introduced until many years later.

[John Rosett]

Mandolin World News had a fairly detailed article on building cases. You can get reprints here: https://www.musixnow.com/MWN.html
You'll probably have to contact Dix Bruce to find out which issue it's in.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From Dr.H - "So I guess what I'm really asking is, how hard is it to make a decent DIY case ?". Maybe not 'that hard' depending on what style you want & what materials you want it made from - however. I'd reckon that by the time you'd forked out the cash for the tooling to form the plywood sides / materials / parts etc. - you'd have been financially better off buying a decent case anyway.

Unless you really went to town on it,the case would almost never be of the same standard as those made by the pro. makers - purely my opinion - others may differ,
Ivan

[HoGo]

From Dr.H - "So I guess what I'm really asking is, how hard is it to make a decent DIY case ?". Maybe not 'that hard' depending on what style you want & what materials you want it made from - however. I'd reckon that by the time you'd forked out the cash for the tooling to form the plywood sides / materials / parts etc. - you'd have been financially better off buying a decent case anyway.

Unless you really went to town on it,the case would almost never be of the same standard as those made by the pro. makers - purely my opinion - others may differ,
Ivan

I made my first hard shell case as well. Cases for mandolins were hard to come by here so I decided to make one. I managed (with lots of problems) to make usefull glassfiber laminate case but never again...
These days you can make (or get made) custom case with vacuum molding from ABS. All you need is forms (top and bottom) made of wood or similar suitable material -it doesn't have to be perfect, the ABS sheet will get wrapped around it, just smooth and the two halves fitting togeter - and go to any company that does the molding in required size (common these days). From there you just trim the moldings add seal and case hardware and interior to your liking. No need to do outside lining or finishing.

[liestman]

Adrian (HoGo), - have you had any luck finding the seal for a glassfiber / fiberglass case? I have search all over and keep getting told that you have to have a custom extruded rubber made to your specs, with a 5000 foot minimum.

[ProfChris]

I made myself this:



So I had to make a case for it:



The case carcass is 3.4 mm (5/32?) hardwood ply, bent using a hot pipe. It bends OK. No kerfed lining because 3.4 mm is enough glueing surface to take string tension, so it should hold a case together. It's flat top and base, not shaped to the instrument, which would be a long and challenging build.

This case is just lined with green felt, because it doesn't travel on public transport so is really just a protection against knocks. Foam and fake fur would be fairly easy, except for shaping the foam (I think you need a hot wire for that).

I could probably stand on the case and not break it, except maybe if I put all my weight on the widest part.

And I know the tweed covering is a bit lurid, but it kind of goes with the yew top

Building the box is fairly easy - it's glueing on the fabric and lining which takes the time. My total materials cost for this was around US$ 50.

But I think anything more complex is so much extra work that you'd be better buying from a specialist case maker.

[allenhopkins]

...*So I guess what I'm really asking is, how hard is it to make a decent DIY case?...Not just some 80-pound coffin-box made from old palates and orange crates (I've done that already...)...

I have made "coffin" cases for a Washburn bowl-back mandola, a National Triolian mandolin, a bowed psaltery, and a Polk-A-Lay-Lee (which, if you must ask, is a four-foot-long "surfer uke" with a serpentine neck).

If you can bend 1/4" plywood, you can make a decent shaped case. I can't bend wood in my relatively tool-less home, so I settled for straight lines. I'd wonder why you'd want to cover the case in vinyl -- only because that's how commercial cases are made? I painted mine white, to reduce heat absorption; I've painted white over some of the black vinyl exteriors of commercial cases, for the same reason. I used standard hardware-store hinges and handles, and basic upholstery-store foam for padding, without going for plush.

My cases are crude but serviceable; the Washburn bowl-back mandola flew from Rochester to Phoenix and back in the cargo hold, bubble-padded and unscathed. With more tools and more skill, you can certainly do better. I won't claim a great feeling of creative accomplishment upon completing the cases, but the instruments involved didn't fit commercially-available cases -- at least not ones I could find -- so necessity mothered invention, I guess.

[HoGo]

Adrian (HoGo), - have you had any luck finding the seal for a glassfiber / fiberglass case? I have search all over and keep getting told that you have to have a custom extruded rubber made to your specs, with a 5000 foot minimum.

I didn't make the shell like the modern shaped cases are done. It ws more than two decades ago and I cose simple rectangular shape with slightly rounded edges. I cut the whole case out of two pieces of styrofoam and covered them in two or three layers of GF fabric/resin with no vacuuming or similar. I added 1x1/2 wood sticks around both parts (inside) to create thicker lip. When I covered the outside with synthetic leather (somewhat softer and more rubbery than the standard case covering) the seal was good enough for me... The wood was there so I could attach the handle, latches etc. into solid material instead of just thin shell.
I think it would be easier to find aluminum profile for the seal but bending it is somewhat tricky.
That kind of material in rubber gets likely used elsewhere but finding supply for just one or two cases would be hard...

[Loudloar]

*So I guess what I'm really asking is, how hard is it to make a decent DIY case?
*Are there any sources that offer plans or tips for doing this?

I've built quite a few cases. It's a huge about of work, takes very specialized skills and just sourcing the materials is quite a chore and potentially more expensive than buying a standard case. Then factor the need for tools, forms, and maybe 40+ hours of labor spread over weeks or months. So that's why you rarely see home built cases.

Instrument builders very rarely build cases. It's not possible to make a profit on low volume case production. Plus it takes them away from their primary role building instruments.

Here are some case building guidelines and some of the cases I have built. (No, I don't build or repair cases. I don't have time but even if I did the cost would be more that you would want to pay.) http://www.stevekirtley.org/caserepair.htm

Also, feel free to visit my Facebook page on vintage cases. We discuss all aspects of vintage cases, including repair and construction. https://www.facebook.com/groups/vint...strumentcases/

Steve

[Dr H]

I've built quite a few cases. It's a huge about of work, takes very specialized skills and just sourcing the materials is quite a chore and potentially more expensive than buying a standard case. Then factor the need for tools, forms, and maybe 40+ hours of labor spread over weeks or months. So that's why you rarely see home built cases.

Instrument builders very rarely build cases. It's not possible to make a profit on low volume case production. Plus it takes them away from their primary role building instruments.

Here are some case building guidelines and some of the cases I have built. (No, I don't build or repair cases. I don't have time but even if I did the cost would be more that you would want to pay.) http://www.stevekirtley.org/caserepair.htm

Also, feel free to visit my Facebook page on vintage cases. We discuss all aspects of vintage cases, including repair and construction. https://www.facebook.com/groups/vint...strumentcases/

Steve

This is fascinating, Steve -- the only place I've seen this kind of information before. Thanks!

And thanks to everyone who responded. You've all convinced me that making a case is a lot of work. Nonetheless, since I'm not building instruments, I can afford the time so I may give it a try.

Once again, Mandolin Café provides more useful information in a single thread than any dozen other music forms.
You guys rock.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From John Liestman - " .....with a 5000 foot minimum.". John,that's a typical commercial scenerio. To make it worth while setting up the machinery to extrude 'whatever',a company needs to produce a 'minimum batch quantity',or it's simply not economic.

What sort of 'seal' were you thinking of ?. Extruded rubber 'P' seals are pretty well available in many sizes if you could adapt one of those. :- https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Ru...w=1455&bih=868 .

Adrian - After forming,a moulded ABS case shell has almost no rigidity in it's sides. The only thing that keeps them stiff,is the aluminium edging. To accurately trim the top & bottom case shells to the correct depth, & to keep them accurate enough so that the 2 edges come together prefectly,requires tooling such as a 'cut & file jig'.
It 'could' be done freehand with a great deal of care,but one slip & you've got an unusable moulding !.
The other thing to bare in mind is that to form a shell with a specific thickness - say
2 mm,you'll most likely have to start off with a 3mm sheet (or thicker) of material, because it thins down while it's being formed. As the heated material is vacuumed down over the mould tool,where it touches the mould tool - it stops & stretches = becomes thinner. So you end up paying for 3 or 4 mm thick material to make a 2 mm thick case.
To make the case rigid,you need aluminium edging which has to be formed to a precise shape top & bottom,or they won't fit together. Trying to fit a rigid edging to a ''not so rigid'' moulding is best done in a jig. So it's not quite as easy as it first sounds,
Ivan

[liestman]

Ivan, I was going off of my late 70s Sobell case, which is made with a seal on each half of the fiberglass case, remotely like tongue and groove flooring (mating male and female parts in other words). One of his neighbors made the cases back then on a pretty limited scale so I am guessing it was not a large commercial-sized order of a custom seal. But that sort of thing is out of my area of expertise.

[HoGo]

Ivan, I was going off of my late 70s Sobell case, which is made with a seal on each half of the fiberglass case, remotely like tongue and groove flooring (mating male and female parts in other words). One of his neighbors made the cases back then on a pretty limited scale so I am guessing it was not a large commercial-sized order of a custom seal. But that sort of thing is out of my area of expertise.

I too think that the range of seals is so wide that there must be something readily available but finding it amng the hundreds of profiles is the hard part (I've found couple single-lip H profiles and u profiles that could be used)
The Schuster case is very rigid at the edges, feels much thicker material than the Gator or Hiscox and with the organic rounded shapes it is very sturdy. The seal is just hard rubber, no aluminum and it holds the shape without flexing. I guess 3mm+ after forming. ANd it is easy to glue additional strip of ABS to the edge.
Ivan, cutting the shell from the moulding is pretty straightforward even without complicated jigs... You can use your form as a jig. If the bottom surface is nice and flat you can ride simple sawblade along it to cut it to size or you can use router for final trimming level with mould.

[Loudloar]

You've all convinced me that making a case is a lot of work. Nonetheless, since I'm not building instruments, I can afford the time so I may give it a try.

Dr H, please come over to the Facebook Vintage Case group and we'll be glad to share all the case building tips and tricks we know.

Steve

[Ivan Kelsall]

Hi John - You're thinking of the extruded Aluminium seals as per the Hiscox /Gator & other cases then ?. If that's the case ( NO pun intended) have a look to see if you can find what you want here & see if you can find a US source :- http://www.terralec.co.uk/hardware__.../11490_0c.html,
Ivan