To Style B or not to Style B

[brunello97]

Could be ... the fuzziness of the label is quite a contrast to the sharpness of the strings and rosette in the photo.

I thought it could be from a remarkably shallow depth of field, but I tried a few shots out with my phone and iPad and got pretty much everything in the same degree of focus: label, fb, rosette, strings. I think Mike's supposition is probably on the mark. Isn't that what scanners are for?

Seems like a pretty lamebrained scam.

Mick

[Jim Garber]

hey jim garber is this the same one you posted about?

Yes, I believe so. I agree that the purfling does not resemble L&H. In fact the workmanship is slightly sloppy -- one side of the purfling does not match the point as well as the opposing one. I guess they bought it fixed the back separation and strung it up pretty quick fro resale.

[brunello97]

Just sent the EBay seller a note with a link to the earlier two-point sale that Jim first posted as well as an image of a real L+H B.

Makes me think of the old Robert Kraft joint.



Mick

[mrmando]

Both eBay and Reverb have tools you can use to report fraudulent listings. Just saying.

[brunello97]

EBay seller added this to his ad--though a couple hours before I sent him the message described above--:

"I have received a lot of input about this mandolin - some think it's a copy, some say it's
not. It does have a faded label visible through the soundhole which says Lyon & Healy.
I am not well versed enough in Style B mandolins to know. Please see all the pictures to
decide. Thanks again."

I wonder who is saying to him "it's not a copy"? Well, it's not a copy of an L+H Style B. Different mandolin altogether. It may resemble an L+H in some ways but I wouldn't think of it as a copy at all. I think he's squirming now....maybe ignorant of the scam or else stonewalling. At $470 this morning the bidding is reaching the point beyond where it makes sense to buy even knowing it's not an L+H.

The ongoing allure of the two-point mandolin

Mick

[Tobin]

Yes, I believe so. I agree that the purfling does not resemble L&H. In fact the workmanship is slightly sloppy -- one side of the purfling does not match the point as well as the opposing one. I guess they bought it fixed the back separation and strung it up pretty quick fro resale.

The seller says, "About 4" of seam separation/uneveness on the back." So apparently they didn't even bother to fix the problem.

This mandolin sold on eBay on June 12th for $688.90, and was listed as being in Chicago. It then came up for sale again 6 days ago (which would have been June 21st). That was a 9-day turnaround, in which time it had to ship from Chicago to its current seller in Dawsonville, Georgia. It looks to me like this current seller (Reprise Vintage Instruments) just did a quick bit of work on the exterior to make it look prettier, glued a label inside, installed a bridge and tailpiece, and strung it up without doing any serious luthiery on it. Then he listed it for sale on Reverb for $1900, which is 2.75 times what he paid for it.

That's all well and good, and I don't hold it against anyone to turn around instruments like that. It would be a fun hobby. But the fact that this instrument mysteriously grew a label during the process is what turns me off. That type of fraudulent behavior hurts the entire collecting community.

[Jeff Mando]

A couple points, that I observe... While I am not an L&H expert, I'll go with the consensus of the experts on this forum, who are. While there is nothing wrong with buying an instrument on eBay, with the idea of reselling it a week later for a profit -- you have to keep in mind that you are attracting and appealing to the SAME small set of potential buyers, namely mandolin players! With guitars there are many more potential buyers each week, so a seller would be less likely to get called out for such a folly...

Another thing, there is nothing wrong with a super cool looking 80-90 year old "no name" mandolin being worth $688 as a project. To me, it has a great look with quality materials and hopefully a nice sound, once repaired. THE PROBLEM, as I see it, is that for it to be worth $1900 -- it needs a name -- both to show up in searches and also to justify the price. To use a guitar example that is common, many Fender electric guitars were refinished by amateurs and the peghead logo was ruined or painted over. You can purchase a restoration decal and I see nothing wrong with applying one -- provided it is indeed a genuine Fender guitar. But, in this case, it seems a label was added in an attempt to deceive, which would be fraud.

Good detective work, guys! Fun stuff! Right out of Forensic Files and American Greed! How about a new one -- Mandolin Greed!

[MikeEdgerton]

The only issue I see is with the label. Stolen provenance unless this guy has some sort of proof.

[mrmando]

Now he's saying it's a "copy," which, as noted, is still a rather generous description. And the Reverb listing is closed.

Did you notice the spacing at the nut? There's a huge gap between the G and D courses. I suppose you might do that deliberately if you were going to do a lot of duo-style playing with the melody on the G course and tremolo above. Or maybe it's just a mistake.

[Jim Garber]

He didn't say it was an accurate copy.

This mandolin is a copy of a Lyon & Healy Style B - please bid accordingly. I appreciate all the knowledgeable ebayers who
have shared their expertise and provided guidance. Thanks again.

I didn't remember any label showing up through the soundhole in the original eBay listing and, sure enough, I checked the photos i downloaded:



It looks like you can see the wood of the back and I don't see any label. It would be ironic if this time on eBay it sells for less than it sold before ($688 plus shipping).

[brunello97]

...It would be ironic if this time on eBay it sells for less than it sold before ($688 plus shipping).

Oh, what a tangled web we weave.....

Mick

[ollaimh]

He didn't say it was an accurate copy.



I didn't remember any label showing up through the soundhole in the original eBay listing and, sure enough, I checked the photos i downloaded:



It looks like you can see the wood of the back and I don't see any label. It would be ironic if this time on eBay it sells for less than it sold before ($688 plus shipping).

yeah, the original listing had no label. you can see the wood inside.

[Jim Garber]

Well, the current sale went for $646 and he bought it on eBay for $688. Hmmmm

[Jeff Mando]

Well, the current sale went for $646 and he bought it on eBay for $688. Hmmmm

More than likely a shill bidder -- you'll probably see it relisted next week........

[brunello97]

More than likely a shill bidder -- you'll probably see it relisted next week........

I wonder how they would handle the fake label issue if it went up for sale again?

Mick

[Jeff Mando]

I wonder how they would handle the fake label issue if it went up for sale again?

Mick

I'm guessing he's having a better label made, probably as we speak...........