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Thread: Stagg vs Ibanez

  1. #1

    Default Stagg vs Ibanez

    Hi everyone! I am looking to start learning the mandolin and want a little info. So far, I have searched the forum for tips and advice. I went by a local music store yesterday to try a few mandolins and try to visualize what I kept reading about. They had a Stagg m20s (solid top model) for $140 and they can get an Ibanez m510. I would like to stay near this price range for a beginner, but I want something that will be a decent instrument to learn with. The Stagg had several extras for a beginner (solid spruce top, adjustable bridge) but I am not finding too much info other than their website. Would this be a good beginner or should I look at an Ibanez m510. I am open to all suggestions, just please go easy on me. If I sound dumb about this stuff, it is because I am 🙂 Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Stagg vs Ibanez

    Actually, I would not consider either of your choices great for beginners or anyone else for that matter. The Stagg has a solid spruce top, but probably not carved, just steamed and pressed to shape. Then it has basswood back and sides and a nato neck, both lousy tone wood choices. The Ibanez had a plywood top and mahogany ply back and sides, again not the best choices for tone.

    If you're going to go cheap, you might as well get a Rogue from Musician's Friend. They're on sale occasionally for 39.95. All plywood but they can be set up to play well. Lots of people buy these and learn to do their own set ups by asking member Rob Meldrum for his free e book on the subject. The similarity in appearance between the two models you name and the Rogue lead me to believe they are all made in the same Chinese factory. Highly likely, since there are only two huge Chinese factories making the vast majority of mandolins.

    The Kentucky KM-150 is a much better choice for a beginner, all solid carved spruce and maple, the right stuff. Of course then you are at another price point, 350 dollars but a bargain in my opinion. It is possible to find used examples sometimes on our Classifieds or on the Guitar Center Web site. If you must go cheaper than that, I would go with the Gretsch New Yorker Supreme. All solid mahogany, no ply, not carved but at least solid, for around 240.

    I certainly understand the urge to support your local brick and mortar music store, but if that's the best they can do for you, I would look elsewhere.
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    Registered User almeriastrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stagg vs Ibanez

    I am tempted to be blunt here... neither.

    Kentucky KM150. You will not touch it for the money. It is in a different league entirely from the lesser stuff...
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  5. #4

    Default Re: Stagg vs Ibanez

    I don't mind blunt, I honestly want to know. It means quite a bit more when the info comes from people with years of experience versus random online reviews. I have started looking online for the KM150 (not sure where to find one locally yet). What would be the biggest differences between this and the other beginner mandolins I mentioned? Am I looking at better sound, easier to play, or greater longevity before I need to upgrade? I don't want to waste my money, so I want to get the best bang for my buck.

  6. #5

    Default Re: Stagg vs Ibanez

    To me, anyway, there is a big difference between spending $140 and $350 for your first mandolin, especially if you don't know that you are going to stay with the instrument and put the time in. Granted the KM-150 gets rave reviews, but is still a lot to spend on a whim, IMHO. I was in a music store recently that stocked some beginner mandolins and they had several in the $150 and under range, mostly plywood, I assumed. Only one stood out from the crowd, soundwise, a new Savannah SA-120, which was $100 and also solid wood, but not carved. I believe the SA-100 is the plywood model. Depending on where you live, you probably will need to purchase online.

  7. #6

    Default Re: Stagg vs Ibanez

    IMHO, the worst thing you can do is go cheap on your first mandolin. If you are not serious enough to get something like a KM 150, why would you want to expend your time and energy?

    At the bare minimum, at least buy from one of our cafe sponsors like The Folk Musician, The Mandolin Store, or Elderly. You will at least get a good playing mandolin.

    Now I have no idea of you financial situation, and I do remember when a hundred bucks was a lot for me, so don't take this as a harsh statement. If you are of limited means, buy anything you can from a sponsor. You will be happier by far.

    Having a mandolin is better than not having one, for sure. Having one that is hard to play is a lot less fun. This is coming from someone who has no problem with a beginner buying a $3000 instrument.
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    Default Re: Stagg vs Ibanez

    Camronp , did you read my earlier post? I tried to be very clear about the differences. I will try one more time.

    For 100-150 dollars spent on a Stagg, Ibanez, or any one of a hundred other brands made in the same factory, you will get a mandolin shaped object, something with strings on it that looks like it could be a mandolin, but made out of the wrong kinds of woods like basswood, nato, luan plywood, whatever is the cheapest. That wood will be steamed and pressed into shape. So on top of being made out of the wrong kind of wood, it will be constructed incorrectly. Then it will be finished Incorrectly, using the wrong kind of finish, probably dipped in nice thick plastics for that oh so shiny look. Finally, to add insult to injury, it will probably be set up incorrectly. If your local music store only carries those two models, they probably don't know mandolins. That means they don't know how to set one up properly. They may know how to set up a guitar, but a mandolin is not a little guitar.

    Now, let's say you spring for a Kentucky KM-150, 349 most places. If you order it from Place like Elderly Instruments, Folkmusician.com, or The Mandolin Store, it will arrive expertly set up and ready to play. This will give you better playability and better sound. Plus it will be made from spruce and maple, carved not bent, which is the traditional way to make a mandolin, and it will be finished with a thin nitrocellulose lacquer. This will also give you better sound. Greater longetivity before you upgrade? For some, the KM-150 is all the mandolin they ever need. But if you do decide to sell it, it will be an easy sell here on our Classifieds. When you see them they get snapped up quickly. Try selling a Stagg or a modern Ibanez on our Classifieds, see what happens.

    Br1ck said it very well, but I will echo it. Anything worth doing is worth doing the right way. If you are interested enough in mandolin to buy one. I advise buying one that's worth having. You will be much better off in the long run. A cheap instrument that sounds bad and is hard to play will only discourage you and make you want to quit. Then you'll be stuck with an instrument nobody will buy. I just don't get this whole idea of trying to cheap out and go to the bottom of the barrel, just in case it doesn't work out. Doing this almost guarantees failure, which then becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. We even get guys here who are guitarists, maybe they own a Martin or a Stratocaster or a Les Paul, and they want to try "something different" so they want to know what mandolin is best that's under 200, because they just don't want to spend that much on something they may not stick with. They seem to understand spending 1200 on the Strat, 1800 on the Martin, and 3000 on the Paul, but seem absolutely opposed to spending more that 200 on a mandolin. News flash, folks. You have to spend more on a mandolin than a guitar to get similar quality, not less!

    I have no financial interest in any of the above businesses. I will just say that I have played some KM-150 s and they are impressive at their price point. I have done business with Elderly and The Mandolin Store and I know their set ups are excellent. Robert Fear of Folkmusician.com is a frequent poster here and although I have not done business with him personally I know he is known for excellent set ups and would take good care of you.

    I wish I could wave a magic wand and just make all the crappy mandolins in the world disappear. The companies that sell these thing don't do anybody any favors. They do more harm than good.
    Don

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    Registered User almeriastrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stagg vs Ibanez

    Don is spot on. +1000% to everything he says.

    I'd just add one more thought. I teach mandolin here and have a local group of students, I see a lot arrive, initially, with these 'cheap' mandolins of the Stagg variety (they are all just 'names' stuck on various mass produced 'trade' instruments). These mandolins are awful - horrible - to play and they sound terrible. Even if you set them up, they still feel 'rough' and unpleasant. Keeping them in tune tends to be a nightmare because those plywood, cheap tops move under all that string tension (which is very high on a mandolin). Also as a result of that tension, after just a couple of years the 'total structural failure' rate is very, very high. Tops sag... neck joints fail... they are worthless. Landfill or firewood. As for encouraging learning, I look on them as aversion therapy...

    You may not find a KM-150 locally. Only speciality mandolin dealers are likely to have them, and only speciality dealers will have the experience and skill to make them fully playable.

    Get a decent mandolin to learn on. It makes all the difference. Also, well-respected models do hold some value so you can always sell them if you ever want to.
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    Default Re: Stagg vs Ibanez

    Get a decent one - possibly second hand. Mandolins are not like cars. A ten year old car will probably be heading for the scrap yard. A ten year old mandolin (especially one bought second hand) will probably be worth as much as you paid for it. I've never regretted spending money on an instrument. I bought my first decent guitar in 1973 and its worth at least five times what I paid for it!

  14. #10
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    Default Re: Stagg vs Ibanez

    If that is your only choice I would buy ibanez, they have made some good cheap ones and some not so good, I have a cheap 522 and it actually sounds really good for the $100 I paid used
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  15. #11

    Default Re: Stagg vs Ibanez

    You have received some good advice, even though Br1ck's a bit harsh =.
    To expand slightly on the Kentucky 150, let me list the rest of the stock advice for someone who posts your first mando? query.
    There are three current brand names to look at, you can literally forget the rest. Yes, you will spend more than $200, but you wont regret it.
    1. The brands are Eastman, Kentucky and The Loar. They are all making decent-plus instruments in their low-end models. Eastman 305 would be the entry-level comparable to the K150. I'm not a The Loar fan so someone else will give you the skinny on them.
    2. Give us an idea of your region and we will suggest some actual stores where you can check out some Eastman, Kentucky and The Loar models. There is no substitute for the actual store visit, preferably with that creature of myth, the "knowledgable friend".
    3. You will get more value for your money in an A-shaped body than in an F-shape body.
    4. Any model by these three makers should be easily resold should you decide not to continue the mando. Conversely, it would be worth KEEPING if you get right into 8-string love and want a better instrument a year or two later, but dont want to risk your good one on camping trips, airplanes etc etc.
    5. Point 4 is the first stage of the degenerative disease we call MAS (Mandolin Acquisition Syndrome). There is no known cure.

  16. #12

    Default Re: Stagg vs Ibanez

    There is a reason most specialty stores like Gryphon won't stock much, if anything, below the KM 150 or Eastman 305 level.

    I was in a well established violin store recently getting viola hardware for an armrest. A father was there looking for a "good" violin for his daughter and was disappointed the cheapest violin was $500. Having bought both my daughters, now pro musicians, the best I could afford, and at great sacrifice, I was appalled. I'd seen them get out of a new Mercedes. I remember the cello I bought for $12,000 when I drove a ten year old Honda. Perhaps I had my priorities wrong, but today she has folks come to her home for lessons, and will never have to work for some soulless corporation. I call that priceless, and often think about the teacher who wanted my daughter to have that cello bad enough to let me set the terms, $100 a month interest free.

    So I am rather passionate about giving yourself or others the lifetime gift of creating music. If that comes off as harsh, so be it.
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  18. #13
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    Default Re: Stagg vs Ibanez

    Quote Originally Posted by Br1ck View Post
    I remember the cello I bought for $12,000 when I drove a ten year old Honda. Perhaps I had my priorities wrong, but today she has folks come to her home for lessons, and will never have to work for some soulless corporation. I call that priceless, and often think about the teacher who wanted my daughter to have that cello bad enough to let me set the terms, $100 a month interest free.
    Thank you for sharing that story, that should go a long way toward understanding why your advice may seem a bit harsh on this subject ... you're passionate about this subject, and why not be? IMO your priorities were right, and you were also fortunate to make a great deal on a good instrument back then - and your daughter was fortunate to benefit from all that!

    I'm one of those guitarists who bought an old bowlback off eBay for just a few bucks, got it playable, and eventually got hooked. But the first "upgrade" was to an Ibanez pressed top model, then a Washburn solid carved model, then an Eastman solid carved model, and lastly an entry level Collings. I'd have started with the Collings if I could have afforded one. I wouldn't have a Collings now if it weren't for a musician friend who wanted me to have it and who was happy to give me unbelievably easy terms on it.

    As one who has purchased and enjoyed really cheap, inferior mandolins, I can say that they need a lot of setup work to make them useful and enjoyable. Anybody starting out who doesn't want to spend time on learning to do a proper setup would always be better served by purchasing the low end Kentucky or Eastman models from companies that do a proper setup, like Elderlys, The Mandolin Store, Folk Musician, etc., check out the Cafe sponsors. Failing that, try to cut a deal on a used instrument from a trustworthy source, which should come well-setup if it's been used by a good musician.
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    Default Re: Stagg vs Ibanez

    Musician's Friend is offering the KM-150 mandolin for $283, available as of July 21, reservable now. Granted, you'll have to either learn to set up the mandolin yourself, or pay a pro instrument shop to do it, but while this is twice your $140 price on the Stagg, it's still a very significant discount. And you get all-solid-wood, carved top and back, and to quote almeriastrings above, "a different league" from the others being considered.

    I know many a player who learned on a terrible instrument -- all he/she, or the parents, could afford or were willing to spend. I've also know quite a few people who started out enthusiastically, but were deterred, or at least hindered, by the difficulty of playing a really low-end instrument, that played hard, sounded bad, and didn't reward their efforts.

    Remember, a $140 mandolin that you don't play, is more expensive than a $350 mandolin that you do play.
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  21. #15

    Default Re: Stagg vs Ibanez

    Thank you for the input. Several were very informative and understood where I came from and what I was asking. I learned a lot about the brands and construction. Others, I am sorry for wasting your time by considering a beginner instrument. I don't splurge on myself and I am not sure how much time I can devote to the mandolin. I do understand how instrument price and quality work, I have two high schoolers who have played expensive instruments for 5+ years. I did not buy a $3-$4k trumpet or $7k oboe their first year in band, they had beginner instruments and stepped up as their skills improved. All I was asking was are mandolins similar to these instruments, I typically rely on the advise of their band directors and private lesson teachers for this info. Unfortunately, mandolin is not in their wheelhouse, and I have zero knowledge on string instruments. That is why I came here. I am sorry for being reluctant to drop, what is considered in my household, a large chunk of money on an instrument I don't know if I will enjoy. If my only 2 options are not play or spend $300-$500, I guess I won't be playing. Perhaps my priorities are wrong, I maybe should spend more on my music and less on their music education. Oh, and B.T.W, I still drive my 17 year old truck I bought used 12 years ago.

  22. #16
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    Default Re: Stagg vs Ibanez

    I am sorry that you reacted so negatively to the advice I gave you. And that others echoed. You seem to indicate that I did not understand where you were coming from, and that I didn't really answer the question you were asking. But please re-read your first post. You did say you wanted "something decent" and that you were "open to all suggestions". I took this literally. Was I wrong to do so? Dude, you want us to "take it easy" on you? It's a two way street. How about you take it easy on us?

    Have you been pricing mandolins at various price levels? Do you know how expensive they can get? It sounds like you have, given your comparison with band instruments. I am a retired music teacher, and taught band and orchestra among other things. So I know where you are coming from. And yes, there are beginning level trumpets and oboes that are quite nice. But band instruments are factory products. Mandolins, unfortunately, require more hand crafting. CNC machines have helped with this a lot, bringing carved mandolins down in price considerably. So considering that, the KM-150 some of us recommended is quite a bargain, really, all things considered. And I hear you very clearly saying that money is an issue. I was trying to make the point that, if you bought the Kentucky and subsequently found you didn't like mandolin, you could sell it easily and not be out much at all. But if you did like it, you would have probably all the mandolin you would every need for relatively small bucks. It would be a win-win.

    I think your original post was somewhat misleading. You should have not said you were "open to all suggestions" if what you really wanted to know was "should I buy the Stagg or the Ibanez?". It would appear that you have already made your mind up that's what you want to do, and came here looking for validation of a choice you already made. If these two models are your final choice, I would advise choosing the Ibanez for several different reasons. One, the Ibanez name has more cache and would be an easier sell later on. Two, it has an adjustable truss rod in the neck, and would be easier to set up. Third, it does have an adjustable bridge as well. You mentioned that as a distinction for the Stagg, but the Ibanez has it too. With an adjustable bridge and an adjustable truss rod both in place, theoretically it could be set up to play every bit as well as the most expensive mandolins. The Stagg does have the solid top, yes, but that is negated, in my opinion, by the poor choices they made for wood in the rest of the instrument. But, if you are still reading this, I have one more serious suggestion. In another thread you say you got the free e-book by Rob Meldrum on set up. Good. Zero dollars spent so far. Don't get the Stagg or the Ibanez. Order the Rogue A style from Guitar Center, on sale right now for the 4th of July sale for 49.95. Its all laminate, made in the same factory as your other choices for a hundred less. Then use that free book to learn how to set it up right. It can be set up to play well, with the caveat that with no truss to you can't change neck relief. Rob loves the inexpensive mandolins, particularly the Rogue. Then, once it's set up to play the best it possibly can, do free online lessons or spend a few bucks on a beginner's book and play the heck out of that Rogue. Between learning set up skills and playing skills, it'll be a heck of a lot of fun for 50 bucks.

    I don't suppose you'll be hearing from me again on this matter. I've given you the best advice I have to give. Best of luck to you on your journey. Don, out.
    Last edited by multidon; Jun-27-2017 at 6:51am.
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  24. #17
    My Florida is scooped pheffernan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stagg vs Ibanez

    Quote Originally Posted by Camronp View Post
    I am sorry for being reluctant to drop, what is considered in my household, a large chunk of money on an instrument I don't know if I will enjoy. If my only 2 options are not play or spend $300-$500, I guess I won't be playing.
    One alternative might be the Kentucky KM-140, which is a bit cheaper as it has laminate back and sides. There is one currently in the classifieds for $150 here:

    https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/111913#111913

    But given your situation, I might recommend this one listed at Guitar Center (also in Dayton) for $150:

    http://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Ken...n-113349127.gc

    The nice thing about Guitar Center is that, while they don't specialize in mandolin, they offer a 45 day trial period with an easy return policy in case the mandolin doesn't work out for you. They also tend to have cheap shipping, particularly if you have it delivered to your local store.
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  25. #18

    Default Re: Stagg vs Ibanez

    Camronp,

    Many of the responses above are the reason I cringe every time a potential mandolin player posts a thread asking about the right beginner instrument. Some of the Cafe regulars tend to get... shall we say, enthusiastic? about their opinions on the matter. Not that they are necessarily incorrect, and their hearts certainly are in the right place, but they are looking at your situation often many decades removed from their first foray into 8 strings and just as likely from a different financial perspective.

    I'm a pretty recent convert after many years of off-and-on guitar playing and was 'lucky' enough to go through a few starter mandolins before I spent any time here and only started asking for recommendations while looking for my first real upgrade (...and you think starter mandos get people worked up!) Here are some of my thoughts:

    One often recommended method for finding a new mandolin is to play as many as you can first. Some seem to have missed that the two models you asked about would be available to you locally, so you're in a tough spot between "play it first!" and "just not those!" I too had no real options for mandolins locally (a GC) so my experiences buying starters online are as follows:

    1. Used Epiphone MM50. I wanted an F-style and nothing was going to stop me. Solid top and it was in great condition. The only thing it needed was for me to fit the bridge to the top. To this day this was the easiest playing mandolin I've ever touched. Tone was decent too and it sure was pretty. Ebay from a pawn shop: $145

    2. Used Epiphone MM30. Had good luck with the F-style, might as well go for an A too. Looked great. Played great. Sold after a couple months because I never played it since the MM50 was so much nicer. Ebay from another pawn shop. $92

    3. Used Kentucky 140. Bought because was listed as a 150 and this was supposed to be an upgrade. Unplayable. Tried everything possible but neck angle was way off so sent back within 2 days. Ebay. $114

    4. New Rogue RM-100A. Bought on sale because I wanted a beater to take camping. Realized I already had in instrument I could use for that so sent it back after taking out of the box once. MF. $45

    5. Used Savannah SF-100. Bought as a gift for a relative who I knew didn't really want to play mandolin (he plays guitar) but wanted an F-style sitting around the house because it looks cool, so A-style out of the question. Easy to play with a wide nut and low tension on the strings. Sounds horrible. Reverb. $145

    Since I never even played one of them, I figure I got a good mandolin 50% of the time and those came on the front side, which is a pretty risky proposition. If it had been reversed I may not have stuck with it. IMHO, the best two options are to go for either of the used Kentucky 140s mentioned by pheffernan (despite my personal experience with the model) or a new Rogue RM-100 as first recommended by multidon. The Rogue is going to be almost the same exact mandolin as the Ibanez or Stagg for 1/3 the price. It will need some setup but you can do that yourself using Rob Meldrum's frequently mentioned free e-book.

    BTW, I'm also in the same boat as you where my daughter's band purchases take priority over any of my musical desires. First a good flute to replace the rental, which became her marching flute after having to buy an intermediate level, plus the starter piccolo soon replaced by a better one. She just got finished with a band camp where JL Smith & Co. was showing off their wares during the final day's recital. Of course she fell in love with the used(!) $47,000 rose gold, engraved pro model. I told her to get a job 'cause that ain't happening in this lifetime or the next!

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