Phoenix 1 3/16" nut questions

[Girouardfan]

Well guys, I've been thinking about buying a Phoenix and I've been thinking about this for while now and posted about it in the past. I noticed they all use a 1 3/16" nut and the only experience I have with a 1 3/16" nut is Breedlove's and I wasn't a fan of it as much cause the string spacing made it harder to tremolo and the Breedlove just felt very stiff feeling and it was tinny sounding to me, I don't know what it was about it. So are all 1 3/16" going to give me a similar experience? I am a guitar player so I thought I would like the wider nut but with the Breedlove that wasn't the case. I just wish I had a store to play a phoenix select somewhere its frustrating. What's your experience with a 1 3/16" nut or with a phoenix mandolin? Do they all have the same string spacing? I don't mean to offend you if your a Breedlove fan their mandolins just aren't for me but if its for you that's awesome and I'm happy for you. I'm a huge fan of Breedlove guitars especially the older ones.

Take Care and God bless.

[Kash]

I have one. It sounds awesome, not tinny at all. It's very full and rich sounding. It does perhaps feel a bit stiff, but the action is set higher than my lost mandolin. I think the higher action is responsible for that.

Honestly adapting to the wider nut wasn't a big deal. I've only had the instrument for about a month and I'm pretty comfortable with it. I will say that I definitely prefer a standard nut width, but the phoenix select sounds great, so it's worth it to me.

[chasray]

I have a mandolin with a 1 3/16" nut and another one with a 1 1/8" BUT their string spacing is the same. It just depends on where the maker makes those string slots. And then there is neck size and shape. So, no, all 1 3/16" nuts will not give you the same playing experience. I can't tell you about a Phoenix but they are highly regarded as you probably know.

[Girouardfan]

Awesome I'm glad to hear you love your phoenix select post a pic of it. Your probably right about the high action making an instrument feel stiff and I'm not a very big fan of a high action. Where did you buy your select at? Do you feel like you can tremolo pretty smoothly with it? What style of music do you play? Thanks for your response.

[Girouardfan]

I have one. It sounds awesome, not tinny at all. It's very full and rich sounding. It does perhaps feel a bit stiff, but the action is set higher than my lost mandolin. I think the higher action is responsible for that.

Honestly adapting to the wider nut wasn't a big deal. I've only had the instrument for about a month and I'm pretty comfortable with it. I will say that I definitely prefer a standard nut width, but the phoenix select sounds great, so it's worth it to me.

Awesome I'm glad to hear you love your phoenix select post a pic of it. Your probably right about the high action making an instrument feel stiff and I'm not a very big fan of a high action. Where did you buy your select at? Do you feel like you can tremolo pretty smoothly with it? What style of music do you play? Thanks for your response.

[Girouardfan]

I have a mandolin with a 1 3/16" nut and another one with a 1 1/8" BUT their string spacing is the same. It just depends on where the maker makes those string slots. And then there is neck size and shape. So, no, all 1 3/16" nuts will not give you the same playing experience. I can't tell you about a Phoenix but they are highly regarded as you probably know.

Yeah I had a feeling it not all 1 3/16" would give you a similar experience. Thanks for your response it was perfect. What two mandolins do you own?

[Kash]

Awesome I'm glad to hear you love your phoenix select post a pic of it. Your probably right about the high action making an instrument feel stiff and I'm not a very big fan of a high action. Where did you buy your select at? Do you feel like you can tremolo pretty smoothly with it? What style of music do you play? Thanks for your response.

I bought my select used from the classifieds. Everything involved with the transaction went very smoothly. I can tremolo OK with it, but I'm not a tremendous tremolo player and I've been working on my pick hold/positioning the last few months so that kinda slows everything down a bit. I mostly play folk and bluegrass. It's got a decent chop to it, but it really excels at melodies and lead lines.

Here's a picture from when it was listed in the classifieds. I haven't taken any pictures since I got it. The black with black tuners and a stained bridge is really cool looking, pretty heavy metal

[chasray]

The 1 3/16" nut I was referring to is a Rigel A+ Deluxe, the 1 1/8" is a Weber Bitterroot. Also, the Bitterroot has a flat fingerboard and the Rigel is radiused -- another difference that could affect feel.

[Bob Clark]

My main mandolin is a Phoenix Neoclassical. That was my first mandolin with a 1 3/16 nut and I had absolutely no trouble adjusting. I think you can't just consider nut width alone, but need to take in overall neck profile, radius vs flat board (very slight radius on my Neo), and string spacing at the nut (won't all be the same regardless of the same nut width). I really found my Phoenix super easy to adapt to and the best-playing mandolin I have played (YMMV).

Why not speak with Jenny about it. She's really approachable and a very nice person. Also, I see that you are a Girouard fan. I believe that Max played a role in setting up the CNC for Phoenix's neck. He would be a good source of information as to how they play.

But bottom line from me is, this is my daily player and a real lifetime keeper. I love the spacing and the neck profile, as well as all other atributes. I would change nothing about this instrument.

[Jenny]

Not sure what else I can add to what already has been said. I will say that I set my string heights a the nut lower that Rolfe did. The radiused fingerboard helps alot with playability. I strive to make easy playing mandolins. If you have any other questions feel free to ask.

[acousticphd]

1-3/16" is the perfect nut width, IMO.
OK, I am cheerleading a little, but realize that playing "stiffness", tone, and tremolo can't really have anything to do with the string spacing at the nut. What it should do (if you like the feeling), along with the radiused FB, is make the fingering feel easier and less cramped.

Builders who use *wider fingerboards at the nut* (because that's what we're talking about when we say "nut width") tend to also make the FB wider going up the neck, resulting in a wider spacing at the bridge as well. It may be 1/16" wider at the nut, but several 16ths" wider at the bridge. All this can feel spacious and great, or it may feel too wide.

[fatt-dad]

1.1811" v. 1.1875" v. 1.125"

30mm v. 1-3/16" v. 1-1/8"

Phoenix is 30mm.

Or so I recall. . . ? I prefer the wider nut. It's the only reason I sold my Flatiron A5-1.

f-d

[granite]

I've had my Phoenix Select since December and really love the sound and playability. I find the wider fretboard more roomy and comfortable for my fingers. My Eastman seems very cramped now and there is no comparison when it comes to tone. I agree with Jeff in that I don't see how nut width would effect other characteristics of a mandolin. Overall, I have been very impressed with my Phoenix.

Todd

[darylcrisp]

I had one of the Phoenix Selects from a few years ago. Absolutely wonderful sounding and as perfect in build and aesthetics as one could desire. At the time I owned a Collings with the 1 3/16" nut width. I do not remember string spacing of each, but the neck profile was very different in shape on both-my hands preferred one over the other-just a personal thing, neither was better or worse.

The one thing I did not prefer with the Phoenix I had, was not having an adjustable truss rod. The relief was too pronounced for me and it just didn't work for me-so it was sold. If it had been adjustable, I'd say i would still own it.

good luck in the search
d

[Girouardfan]

I had one of the Phoenix Selects from a few years ago. Absolutely wonderful sounding and as perfect in build and aesthetics as one could desire. At the time I owned a Collings with the 1 3/16" nut width. I do not remember string spacing of each, but the neck profile was very different in shape on both-my hands preferred one over the other-just a personal thing, neither was better or worse.

The one thing I did not prefer with the Phoenix I had, was not having an adjustable truss rod. The relief was too pronounced for me and it just didn't work for me-so it was sold. If it had been adjustable, I'd say i would still own it.

good luck in the search
d

When you say the relief was too pronounced for you what do you mean exactly? How else can you explain how you didn't like the feeling of how it played? Also what do you like more about the mandolin you currently have?

Thanks

[darylcrisp]

When you say the relief was too pronounced for you what do you mean exactly? How else can you explain how you didn't like the feeling of how it played? Also what do you like more about the mandolin you currently have?

Thanks

there was too much relief in the neck for my personal playing style. I currently have a custom Gibson F9, have owned Collings, Northfields, Webers(all excellent, just different). All had adjustable truss rods. That's a must for me.
ymmv
d